Which is more important to you...?
 

Which do you feel is more important: Freedom or Health/Safety? Assuming tradeoffs must be made. Yes, I realize this is a "shades of gray" issue, where people find some tradeoffs more acceptable than others. I'm purposely making it "black & white" to see where the consensus goes when people have to view it that way. Respond to the question any way you like in terms of whether it means more important personally or to society or whatever.

Re: Which is more important to you...?
 

How can you not choose Freedom? Seriously.

If you've got Freedom you can take care of the other.

Health/Safety without Freedom is unacceptable.

Re: Which is more important to you...?
 

[ QUOTE ]
How can you not choose Freedom? Seriously.

If you've got Freedom you can take care of the other.

Health/Safety without Freedom is unacceptable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly...to some, Freedom is useless without Health/Safety. I'm not disagreeing with you, Nut...I think it's unacceptable, too, but I also believe that the grand majority of people in this country, and in the rest of the world, if they are really honest with themselves, prefer safety to freedom.

Nothing about the public at large convinces me that it will champion freedom over its desire for white picket fences, 2.4 children, and five year plans. Many Americans still remember fondly(albeit falsely) about a simpler time when family values, total security, and predictability were achievable, never realizing that those things were simply illusions(well, maybe not family values).

Even a couple of months ago, I was chatting with a colleague about this relationship between freedom and security. Although being a liberal, atheist, and free-thinker, he still admitted to me that he was willing to sacrifice a portion of his freedom for security. Five years ago, that would have been okay. Nowadays, it's foolhardy, because we all know that in our world, there are idiots flying planes into buildings.

Re: Which is more important to you...?
 

Coffee,

I understand your point. During WWII there was a quote about Mussolini, "At least he kept the trains running on time." An awful large number of Cubans are grateful to Castro and what they believe he provides them. I saw Iraqi people on TV talking how they missed the security they felt under Sadaam, even though they knew he wasn't a nice person. I keep forgetting that these people exist.

I guess I just believe too much in people taking care of themselves. I know the extremes to which I'd go in order to protect my freedom because I know what I can do because I am free. I realize, believe me, that a lot of people are on the dirty end of the stick. But I also know they've been given a shot at a free education, the opportunity to learn to think for themselves, and more than just a few ways to get the help they need in whatever area they need it.

The "sacrifices" we make today, because of the nut cases who want the US to no longer exist, are mostly simple inconveniences to me. I am not talking about the kids in uniform who are dying. I'm talking about airport security, etc., et al. The things that, if we didn't do them and something bad happened, the very people complaining about them would be screaming, "Why wasn't......" or "Why didn't......"

For me, Health and Security are a direct result of my Freedom. Under a dictator, no matter how benevolent, I'd always fear for my Health (as in staying alive) and I'd never be able to feel any genuine Security.

Re: Which is more important to you...?
 

"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. "

Re: Which is more important to you...?
 

You can buy health and security when you have freedom, but not vice versa.

Compare Cuba and the US to see what I mean.

Re: Which is more important to you...?
 

[ QUOTE ]
For me, Health and Security are a direct result of my Freedom. Under a dictator, no matter how benevolent, I'd always fear for my Health (as in staying alive) and I'd never be able to feel any genuine Security.

[/ QUOTE ]

So do you prefer freedom because you think freedom delivers you health and security? Or, for the sake of argument, if you KNEW that you would be killed if you did not submit to the authority of a censor like for example the Chinese government, which would you choose: being killed, or being censored by the Chinese government?

Re: Which is more important to you...?
 

I dont know what to think about the 2 people that actually did not vote for freedom. Maybe they perfer prison life, plently of time to catch up with no freedom there.

Re: Which is more important to you...?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For me, Health and Security are a direct result of my Freedom. Under a dictator, no matter how benevolent, I'd always fear for my Health (as in staying alive) and I'd never be able to feel any genuine Security.

[/ QUOTE ]

So do you prefer freedom because you think freedom delivers you health and security? Or, for the sake of argument, if you KNEW that you would be killed if you did not submit to the authority of a censor like for example the Chinese government, which would you choose: being killed, or being censored by the Chinese government?

[/ QUOTE ]

Therein is the very definition of courage, honor, bravery, and all sorts of romantic ideals. The student protest in Tiannamen Square was very romantic in scope and gesture. I honestly don't know which way I'd go. I am certainly a romantic, with large ideas swirling in my head and a sense of the theatrics of the world. But, I would only be willing to die if I understood that it was a question of principle, rather than circumstance. My circumstances change, censorship or not. My principles are worth more than my life, because they are what give me strength to do what is right.

I serve the Light. If you could convince me that the sanctity of the Light was being threatened, or, to be less poetic, that it was the right thing to do, then I would always be willing to die for it.

I just don't know what I'd be convinced of when the tanks rolled in. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Which is more important to you...?
 

to be totally honest, I would probably at that time choose censorship, then die later in some vain attempt to get back my freedom.

Im just a loser like that.