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-   -   Whats the ruling ? (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=368218)

10-30-2005 05:42 AM

Whats the ruling ?
 
We played a home tournament yesterday and the following situation came up :

UTG raised allin preflop, and the BB asked how many chips he had. The allin guy counted said that he had around 2000 chips, and the BB decided to call.

Then they flipped their cards over and it was KK for UTG and 77 for the BB.
Then another played realised that UTG had miscounted his chips and that he actually had 3800 chips.
The BB then said that he is not calling... Because he would have never called it in the first place if it would have been counted right at the start.

He still has to call right ?

10-30-2005 06:24 AM

Re: Whats the ruling ?
 
I would say he has to call the amount that the KK player said he had, it's his responsibility to protect his bet.

Cody

dandy_don 10-30-2005 09:10 AM

Re: Whats the ruling ?
 
I believe this would be the applicable rule from Robert's Rules of Poker:

[ QUOTE ]
7. Because the amount of a wager at big-bet poker has such a wide range, a player who has taken action based on a gross misunderstanding of the amount wagered needs some protection. A bettor should not show down a hand until the amount put into the pot for a call seems reasonably correct, or it is obvious that the caller understands the amount wagered. The decision-maker is allowed considerable discretion in ruling on this type of situation. A possible rule-of-thumb is to disallow any claim of not understanding the amount wagered if the caller has put eighty percent or more of that amount into the pot.

Example: On the end, a player puts a $500 chip into the pot and says softly, “Four hundred.” The opponent puts a $100 chip into the pot and says, “Call.” The bettor immediately shows the hand. The dealer says, “He bet four hundred.” The caller says, “Oh, I thought he bet a hundred.” In this case, the recommended ruling normally is that the bettor had an obligation to not show the hand when the amount put into the pot was obviously short, and the “call” can be retracted. Note that the character of each player can be a factor. (Unfortunately, situations can arise at big-bet poker that are not so clear-cut as this.)

[/ QUOTE ]

10-30-2005 09:17 AM

Re: Whats the ruling ?
 
He has to call the full bet of 3800, Because he called the all in bet. Oral bet or in this case call is binding. The only way I would let him off is if the chips of the higher value of UTG were hidden in the behind other chips where the BB couldn't see them.

smoore 10-30-2005 01:45 PM

Re: Whats the ruling ?
 
Not in my game. UTG gets reprimanded for shooting an angle and takes the blinds. An alternate decision could be that they play the hand open for 2000 chips.

flatline 10-30-2005 02:47 PM

Re: Whats the ruling ?
 
That is totally an angle-shot (whether intentional or not). He shouldn't have to call.

tonypaladino 10-30-2005 10:23 PM

Re: Whats the ruling ?
 
[ QUOTE ]
He has to call the full bet of 3800, Because he called the all in bet. Oral bet or in this case call is binding. The only way I would let him off is if the chips of the higher value of UTG were hidden in the behind other chips where the BB couldn't see them.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's BS. Rulings should be enforced in the best interest of the game, not as a "letter of the law" thing.

If I were the host, I would rule that the hand is played "all-in" for the T2000

10-31-2005 09:19 PM

Re: Whats the ruling ?
 
what I meant was were the chips of higher value hidden so the caller couldn't see them. Remember, the highest value of chips must be clearly displayed. If they were hidden I would give the caller a break. Outside of that, a call is a call and he should have to call the 3800.

SoloAJ 10-31-2005 09:29 PM

Re: Whats the ruling ?
 
[ QUOTE ]
what I meant was were the chips of higher value hidden so the caller couldn't see them. Remember, the highest value of chips must be clearly displayed. If they were hidden I would give the caller a break. Outside of that, a call is a call and he should have to call the 3800.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree with Tony, you are being overly stern here. It certainly screams of an angle shot to me. Someone with KK who goes allin is probably hoping for a call if someone has to ask how much the bettor has. Therefore, I am thinking he said 2000 hoping to induce a call. Could be an accident, but either way....

I play the hand allin for 2000...and I tell the UTG guy to shape up his play.

Lottery Larry 10-31-2005 10:06 PM

Re: Whats the ruling ?
 
All-in for T2000. That was too big a difference to write off to an accidental mistake.


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