Today\'s quiz at Cardplayer: steal situation
 

Curious what people think of the quiz answer at Cardplayer today (taken from Middle Limit Poker). The link is here.

But I'll summarize. Game is 30/60 (full). Hero open raises on button with AhKh. Only sb calls. Flop is Jc10c3d. Action goes check, bet, call. Turn is 4d. Now sb c/r.

Question is what to do after the c/r. The book recommends folding.

Re: Today\'s quiz at Cardplayer: steal situation
 

There's no way I fold there.

Rob

Re: Today\'s quiz at Cardplayer: steal situation
 

Me neither.

Re: Today\'s quiz at Cardplayer: steal situation
 

The example forgot to include the SB's pokertracker stats and pertinent reads.

Re: Today\'s quiz at Cardplayer: steal situation
 

I suppose I might as well include the explanation:

"Fold. There is $390 in the pot and it costs you $60 to try and get an ace, a king, or a queen. Ostensibly, with 10 outs, this seems like an easy call. The problem is that an ace or a king may not be an out. If your opponent has two pair or a set, you have only four outs with a gutshot queen, which figures to be an 11-to-1 shot. With just a top pair of jacks, your opponent might have bet the flop. But when you get check-raised on the turn, you may well up against two pair like jack-ten, or better. In rare cases, your opponent may be semi-bluffing some kind of draw like a flush-draw. He might have a pair and a flush-draw, giving him the best hand and a good draw. The Ac, Kc, Qc, Ad, Kd, or the Qd may give your opponent a flush. Agreed that he cannot have all these holdings, but the point is that you will not win every time even when you hit one of your outs."

Re: Today\'s quiz at Cardplayer: steal situation
 

Depends on villain.

In some circumstances (e.g. Mr. Uber Passive) it's OK to fold.

With the state of online poker, you have easy odds to call at least the turn. The turn checkriase could be a set or 2 pair but also likely to be Jx, Tx, even a straight or flush draw sometimes. Against this hand range you have odds to call the turn and hit top pair or the gutshot.

The more difficult question is whether to call a blank river or not, which is obviously opponent/image specific.

The problem stems from the normal criticism of MLH: It advocates folding to turn check-raises far too often. This appears to stem from the fact that it was written for historic weak-tight live games where turn check raises really did mean "I can beat top pair". With the ultra-aggressive and fancy state of online games, a different play is often correct.

However, I do think MLH is a great book, and still does a great job of highlighting certain situations that you really should be folding. You just have to keep the different table dynamics in mind.

Re: Today\'s quiz at Cardplayer: steal situation
 

At least call the turn.

If everyone followed the advice to fold (which they used to more frequently a year ago and still do in live games) semi-bluffing draws and raising hands weaker than 2 pair often become a correct play for the SB to make. Absent a read, you should call this turn and most rivers as well.

Re: Today\'s quiz at Cardplayer: steal situation
 

Raise flop and check the turn for the free card.

Re: Today\'s quiz at Cardplayer: steal situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
Raise flop and check the turn for the free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read it again. Villain checked the flop, hero bet and villain called. Villain then c/r the turn.

Re: Today\'s quiz at Cardplayer: steal situation
 

Anyone check the turn and call a river bet unimproved? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Does the book give a player read? That would really help here.