Bad positioning vs. Leader on Flop
 

Is it too dangerous to flat call on the flop with str8 and flush draws possible? Didn't want to push out the limpers.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO caps, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (17.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds.

River: (13.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP2 checks, CO checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, CO folds.

Final Pot: 15.75 BB

Re: Bad positioning vs. Leader on Flop
 

Why didn't you raise the flop?

Why didn't you raise the turn?

Your hand is almost certainly the best on the flop AND turn.

Re: Bad positioning vs. Leader on Flop
 

I don't know if calling the flop is dangerous, exactly -- you won't be able to drive out a flush draw and probably won't be able to get rid of a gutshot, either. But I'd probably go ahead and raise, for value.

The limpers will most likely stay in with an ace, the case ten, or a draw, in a pot this big. Plus, if CO has AK, he may 3-bet.

In any event, after you called the flop, I think you should have at least raised on the turn. If CO's (or someone else) has trips, you should get some action.

Re: Bad positioning vs. Leader on Flop
 

dude raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaise
somewhere
please!

Re: Bad positioning vs. Leader on Flop
 

guilty as charged - way too passive

Re: Bad positioning vs. Leader on Flop
 

Its fine to say, I am too passive etc etc, but its important to understand WHY raising is correct here.

Anyone with a flush or straight draw, hell most people with two business cards in their hands are not leaving such a big pot so you need to raise with the equity edge.

If you lose a couple limpers this is fantastic especially if they held a heart.

You want to take down big pots as quickly as possible, you raise here not only for value but also to potentially increase pot equity.

Re: Bad positioning vs. Leader on Flop
 

In a huge pot like this. He should be raising either the flop or the turn.

Any draw is going to call because of the pot on the flop, so a raise is for value.

On the turn, the only hand(s) he loses to is AA (1x) and AT (3x?) and everyone else who is putting money into the pot is dead.

The river bet is about as standard as it gets, and I am certain it is shipped his way. However the way he plays it, he wins the least amount with a premium hand in a huge pot where people will call just cause the pot is big.