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-   -   I hate KK (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=250984)

moot 05-12-2005 05:45 PM

I hate KK
 
How the hell do I play this?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero folds, BB calls.

River: (13.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has 3h 6h (one pair, aces).
UTG has Jh Th (one pair, aces).
UTG+1 has 7h Qh (one pair, aces).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 13.25 BB. </font>

WarLordAG 05-12-2005 05:50 PM

Re: I hate KK
 
It depends on if you've had any reads, but if I had just sat down at this table, I would have folded it too, and probably not raised the flop.

Far too often if an A drops in low limit, you're done. They play any A, any kicker, to any raise.

toss 05-12-2005 05:50 PM

Re: I hate KK
 
Without reads I'd fold it just like you did.

tiltaholic 05-12-2005 05:51 PM

Re: I hate KK
 
you need reads.
w/o a read sometimes i call down, sometimes i fold.
i lean towards folding as you did.

droolie 05-12-2005 05:51 PM

Re: I hate KK
 
Don't beat yourself up. The times you lose a pot like this to three guys with flush draws will be very slim. You played it well. You will be shown a weak A or two pair 98% of the time by one of these clowns.

LoaferGee12 05-12-2005 05:51 PM

Re: I hate KK
 
I fold the flop. An early position bettor in to a preflop raiser to with 2 people calling in between. The more I think about it, the easier the fold becomes.

PS: the title of this makes me cringe [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

tiltaholic 05-12-2005 05:52 PM

Re: I hate KK
 
[ QUOTE ]
It depends on if you've had any reads, but if I had just sat down at this table, I would have folded it too, and probably not raised the flop.

Far too often if an A drops in low limit, you're done. They play any A, any kicker, to any raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

often this is incorrect. as shown here.

Spaderess 05-12-2005 05:53 PM

Re: I hate KK
 
Since you didn't get 3-bet on the flop I'd call the turn and bet the river if checked to.

./Spaderess

toss 05-12-2005 05:58 PM

Re: I hate KK
 
But theres a really good chance were done when 5 players ee the turn for two bets.

chris_a 05-12-2005 06:03 PM

Re: I hate KK
 
I personally wouldn't raise the flop after a bet and two callers here. You are "overraising" (I don't know if this term exists, but I'm using it to mean raising calls).

You don't have to assume that the bettor has an Ace. You also don't have to assume that the callers have an Ace. That being said, any one of them *could* have an Ace and your goal, after the point when they call, should be to see a showdown cheaply, or get out and let them fight it out. Raising accomplishes neither and the way you played it, the raise just wound up costing you more money since you didn't even see the showdown. This was the worst case situation.

Therefore, I don't think the flop raise accomplishes much. I think if you were to act after the person who lead out on the flop, then raising would be much more viable. People will probably fold without an Ace or a draw after this point, but they sure aren't going to fold after your raise when they've already called.

Calling the turn and folding the river is completely pointless. Think about it this way: what are you calling the turn for? Your 2 K outs? You shouldn't be. You should be calling primarily because you have a chance of having the best hand. The two K outs help but not that much.

What follows from this is that if you had the best hand on the turn and the Ace came on the river, you still have the best hand after the hand and you should call the river bet.

The way you played it, you gave way too much money away to have not seen a showdown.


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