JJ in the small blind - worth playing?
 

Just kidding [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Here's a hand from last night. Loose/passive .25/.50 table (about 15% hands are raised pre-flop, usually 4-6 see the flop). No specific reads on the players in the hand.

I am dealt two black jacks in the small blind. 4 limpers to me. I raise. The small blind folds. The big blind and all of the limpers stick around with their nasty overcards to my lovely jacks.

Flop: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] {6 players, 14 small bets}

I bet. Everyone calls.

Turn: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img][6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] {6 players, 10 big bets}

I bet. Two players drop.

River: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img][7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] {4 players, 14 big bets}

I ????.

Questions:
1) Flop - Is there a line better than betting out?
2) Turn - Would you call a raise, had someone raised?
3) River - What would you do?

Cheers,
PP

Re: JJ in the small blind - worth playing?
 

Pretty standard, I'd bet out the river and call one bet back to me.

If someone raises the turn, I call them down.

Re: JJ in the small blind - worth playing?
 

I'm a newbie to the site so I would defer to the grizzled veterans if they choose to opine, but I think I would try to check-raise that flop. Yes, you showed preflop aggression so intelligent players may let it check through without a strong hand thus giving the dreaded free card, but you're at .50/$1 and someone is virtually guaranteed to bet, hopefully from a late position and your CR can actually fold out some hands.

2) Yes, I would definitely call a turn raise, but then I would check and call on the river

3) Assuming we're not in case #2 above I would value bet this river because I can see a lot of .50/$1 hands that would call you with nothing but a pair of sixes or even ace high, though I could understand checking and calling since a flush draw is also a decent possibility with this many callers to the end.

Re: JJ in the small blind - worth playing?
 

I agree with calling a turn raise, but other than because 'it's weak to fold here ' I'm not sure why!

How often do typical micro players raise this without a 7 or 2 pair? If you did fold, how often would micro players notice enough to make a play on you in a later hand?

Re: JJ in the small blind - worth playing?
 

Well, strictly speaking, *I* have two pair on the turn too.

I'd have to say that a turn raise is usually a 7 or a 5-4 for the sneakily slow-played flopped straight. Loose and passive table, after all.

But, I do have 4 outs against a straight, so I have the odds to draw to my full house. Add to that the chance that I actually have the best hand and I'm calling it down after a turn raise.

PP

Re: JJ in the small blind - worth playing?
 

Personally, I see it enough to not make me automatically fold at the 1/2 and 2/4 levels. You raised preflop so they put you on high cards and when the board does something scary that isn't likely to have helped you, you'll get raised. It's not exactly common, but certain players do it a lot and this pot is pretty decent sized so I would call it down. Now, if it gets raised and then re-raised or even raised and then called by a player who I have any respect for post-flop I think I could be swung to a fold.

Re: JJ in the small blind - worth playing?
 

bet and call a raise on the river.

[ QUOTE ]
I think I would try to check-raise that flop

[/ QUOTE ]

check-raise who? if the person to your left bets, you don't protect your hand. if no one bets, then you've allowed a disaster to happen. who's to say when you bet, the guy to your immediate left won't raise to try to protect a hand you are currently crushing?

[ QUOTE ]
How often do typical micro players raise this **turn** without a 7 or 2 pair?

[/ QUOTE ]

when they do raise, they won't always have a 7. you have enough outs to two pair* and you have 2 outs to 7x. if the pot were twice as big and you KNEW they had 7x.. you would still be correct to call hoping to spike your J.. so calling in a pot this size is correct if your hand holds up unimproved (roughly 1 in 20 times) as often as it improves (roughly 1 in 20 times) to give you the 2 in 20 or 1 in 10 odds you need to call. i'm oversimplifying the matter, but I'm trying to demonstrate that you must be VERY certain he has 7x to warrant a fold here.

* i assume you mean in general.. like a T763 board as opposed to this paired board

Re: JJ in the small blind - worth playing?
 

That second quote isn't from my post and I think we agree pretty strongly not to fold there most of the time.

On the first one, I totally agree the CR is risky, but at .5/1 I think it works most of the time. Higher limit I would be much more inclined to bet out, but betting here doesn't protect your hand very well either so I would personally take the risk. Most .5/1 players aren't going to fold for this one small bet on the flop, even it if checks through when the next card is a blank your double bet on the turn is much more likely to make single A's, K's and Q's drop their hands.

Re: JJ in the small blind - worth playing?
 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar till:</font><hr />
On the first one, I totally agree the CR is risky, but at .5/1 I think it works most of the time. Higher limit I would be much more inclined to bet out, but betting here doesn't protect your hand very well either so I would personally take the risk. Most .5/1 players aren't going to fold for this one small bet on the flop, even it if checks through when the next card is a blank your double bet on the turn is much more likely to make single A's, K's and Q's drop their hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. A bet does not protect your hand and if checked trough, a bet on the turn if a blank falls will. Also, at this limit, you can't count on the player to your left raises to protect his hand even if he got good reason to do it. Party players at this limit most often just call in the hope for a cheap card that will improves their hand.

JJ in the small blind -- RESULTS
 

I checked, and it was checked around. My hand was good.

The site I was playing on does not show mucked losing hands in the hand history, so I have no idea what they were calling with.

I didn't bet the river because I couldn't see a worse hand than mine calling, while no better hand than mine was going to fold. By checking, I perhaps could have induced a bluff.

Thanks for the comments,
PP