Pocket Tens vs. Dan H. at Legends
 

$5000 buyin WPT event at the Bike. Blinds are 150/300/50.
I am UTG with pocket Tens. I have roughly T7500. I open
raise to T900 and Dan H., two to my left makes it 2100.
Dan after raising has around T6000. Everyone else folds and I call.

Flop comes Q 2 4 rainbow.

I check and Dan H. bets T2000. What's my play? Comments
appreciated.

Bruce

Re: Pocket Tens vs. Dan H. at Legends
 

With that stack I limp preflop a lot. That small reraise gives me fits, especially since you raised from strong position and he made such a small reraise. I might fold preflop there despite the fact that I generally will slit my wrists before folding to a tiny reraise. I do fold the flop I think.

Re: Pocket Tens vs. Dan H. at Legends
 

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With that stack I limp preflop a lot. That small reraise gives me fits, especially since you raised from strong position and he made such a small reraise. I might fold preflop there despite the fact that I generally will slit my wrists before folding to a tiny reraise. I do fold the flop I think.

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Spot on IMO. I think Dan's move is coming from way too much strength to have any comfort. He's in EMP and miniraised an UTG raiser as a shortstack. I'd put him squarely on QQ-AA and play accordingly.

I like a limp with this too given the information and stack sizes.

Re: Pocket Tens vs. Dan H. at Legends
 

Boy I hate limping in this spot. It's level six and we're
going to adjourn for the day in another 45 minutes and I am very shortstacked. Pocket Tens is too good a hand not to play and limping IMHO is bad. I don't have enough chips to play for set equity and if I probably have the best hand why not play aggressively? I have shown some larceny but I haven't been splashing chips like a maniac. I will be raised virtually 100% of the time
if I limp. From my perspective at the time this may be
a defining moment for me. I need chips and I have a decent
hand. If I limp what's my play if I am raised by a large
stack. I'll be OOP. Do I call and see the flop or do
I push BTF?

Bruce

Re: Pocket Tens vs. Dan H. at Legends
 

Stop n go.

Re: Pocket Tens vs. Dan H. at Legends
 

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Stop n go.

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TT is a brutal hand for the stop-and-go. There is almost no chance of gaining EV over a preflop push.

Re: Pocket Tens vs. Dan H. at Legends
 

Bruce,

This is a very good hand to think about IMO. I agree with you that I dont love limping. I think you gotta raise here with 20bbs or whatever and there are more benefits to raising here than folding. Yes, the small reraise is annoying to deal with, but a vast majority of the time you'll just get called or you'll win the blinds. If you limp and someone raises and you call its just not as happy a place for me as opening UTG and dealing with whatever comes your way.

Now, the small reraise is troubling. Chances are Dan is not messing around here. You raised UTG use that info to your advantage. He's probably not going to look down at AQ 65s or whatever and decide to put in a raise. When he raises you, I think you should either commit your stack or fold, as I dont really see how you can justify getting it all in on a 555 flop but not a Q high flop... The difference between the two is really not much and I'm going to assume you didnt call his raise with the plan to check fold any non-ten flop.

Good players can make this laydown preflop. Its troubling, annoying, etc etc, but I really think you either gotta find the fold in you, or jam it in there (or maybe call to the flop with intentions of not folding very much). Simply calling the raise and check folding this flop doesn't feel right to me.

-Jason

Re: Pocket Tens vs. Dan H. at Legends
 

Do we have any FE here?

Re: Pocket Tens vs. Dan H. at Legends
 

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I check and Dan H. bets T2000. What's my play? Comments
appreciated.


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Answer questions with questions.

Question number one is why play the TT UTG preflop anyway? I'm just a relatively inexperienced amateur player. But early in a big time NLT, hands like 99, TT and JJ are easier to get into trouble with UTG or EP, then they are to fold. Personally, folding the tens preflop is almost an easy decision. Did you consider folding the tens?

Question number two is why did he reraise preflop?
- Was there anything to indicate that he had control over you? If yes, then perhaps he reraised as a dog to try and take the pot on the flop or the turn.
- Did he reraise to isolate you? If yes, then he's probably thinking that you have to have some sort of decent hand to raise UTG. So what do you think he thinks you have? AA, KK, QQ, AKs? If he already holds one of those big hands, then the likelihood of you also holding one of them are reduced.

After the flop, what is he thinking?
- He is a smart player, so he has probably already considered the possibility that you could have made top pair and may be trying to check raise.
- Similarly, he could be thinking that you could have AKo, JJ or TT and could be concerned about being beaten by the Q on the flop.

So what could he have?
- It is doubtful that he has any kind of Q because he would likely slow play a set. So what hands does that rule out? Probably all of the preflop raising hands like AQo, AQs and KQs.
- With those hands eliminated what are the hands that he could now have reraised with preflop? Seems to make the AA, KK or AK a bit more obvious.

My conclusions:
- You have to fold or reraise. He has bet so as to give you roughly 5:2 at the pot.
- If he has AK and is semi-bluffing, then he only has to win what, about half the time to make it profitable? Seems quite likely that he could be making this play. And if you go over the top and make him fold, then he has only lost 25% of his stack. What are the chances that he would risk 1/4 of his stack on a semi-bluff this early in the tournament?
- He could have AA or KK putting you on AQ, hoping that you will reraise and he could go over the top again. In that case, his only fear would be that you have QQ.
- He is probably the better player and will likely outplay you over the long run. If you are not very very confident that your tens are good, then I think you have to let them go.

While I think it is highly likely that he is holding AK and had a good read on you that a semibluff would work, it is too early in the tournament for you to risk staying with the hand. Were I you in this case, I would admit that I am probably ahead, but it is too early to find out the hard way. I muck and move on.

Re: Pocket Tens vs. Dan H. at Legends
 

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But early in a big time NLT, hands like 99, TT and JJ are easier to get into trouble with UTG or EP, then they are to fold. Personally, folding the tens preflop is almost an easy decision

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well first, especially in a deepstacked tournament, 9's and T's and J's are extremely playable, i don't know what would make you say they are a fold.. Even for only set value you have to play these hands.