ub 50-100 river checkraise #1
 

ive had a few recent hands where i was checkraised on the river that i thought were a little interesting. here is the first one. my opponent in this one is Thuritz who is newish, as far as im aware, to these games. this would often make me think he might be a bit goofy/bad but i have seen him playing some 50-100 recently in games that didnt appear to be filling up. in the few hands i have played against him he seems tightish so my working assumption is that he is a fairly tight, pretty solid player, but i dont really know. stack sizes are both around 10k.

i get dealth K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in mp. a couple folds to villian who calls, i call, sb calls, bb checks. the flop is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. the blinds check, villian bets 400, i call and the blinds fold. turn is
K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and it goes check/check. river is the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], villian checks, i bet the pot (1200) and he raises to 4800.

Re: ub 50-100 river checkraise #1
 

That's a tough spot, but I'm betting that turn almost all the time.

Re: ub 50-100 river checkraise #1
 

if it's Michael Thuritz, he's far from newish/bad

Re: ub 50-100 river checkraise #1
 

I'm interested to know the thought process behind the turn check.

Marlow

Re: ub 50-100 river checkraise #1
 

I don't see why you would check the turn.

The reasoning behind his river check raise is pretty straight forward: He knows the 2 didn't help you. And any hand that would be worth value betting on the river would almost certainly have bet the turn against a very draw heavy board. You haven't shown any real stength and his bet looks like he wants a fold. I would be inclined to call this one.

Re: ub 50-100 river checkraise #1
 

Only reason to check the turn really is to try to trap on the river. So call, but bet the turn first.

Re: ub 50-100 river checkraise #1
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm interested to know the thought process behind the turn check.

Marlow

[/ QUOTE ]

a good percentage of the time im winning on the turn and he is drawing fairly thin. when i check the turn i think i stand a very good chance of getting a pottish sized bet on the river, either when he bluffs at it or when i make a bet that looks a lot like me betting a busted draw. this also minimizes the risks of getting bet off my hand or putting in too much with a second best hand. my hand is good enough that i dont really need to make him fold but not good enough that i want to catch a ton of heat.

Re: ub 50-100 river checkraise #1
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm interested to know the thought process behind the turn check.

Marlow

[/ QUOTE ]

a good percentage of the time im winning on the turn and he is drawing fairly thin. when i check the turn i think i stand a very good chance of getting a pottish sized bet on the river, either when he bluffs at it or when i make a bet that looks a lot like me betting a busted draw. this also minimizes the risks of getting bet off my hand or putting in too much with a second best hand. my hand is good enough that i dont really need to make him fold but not good enough that i want to catch a ton of heat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Makes perfect sense. TYVM.

Marlow

Re: ub 50-100 river checkraise #1
 

Hi cwl,

[ QUOTE ]
a good percentage of the time im winning on the turn and he is drawing fairly thin. when i check the turn i think i stand a very good chance of getting a pottish sized bet on the river, either when he bluffs at it or when i make a bet that looks a lot like me betting a busted draw. this also minimizes the risks of getting bet off my hand or putting in too much with a second best hand. my hand is good enough that i dont really need to make him fold but not good enough that i want to catch a ton of heat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent thought process and explanation.

I would tend to call on the river, because of two things. One is that he has plenty of reason to think you don't have much, and yet he bet a lot. If he had a hand "worth" 4800 on the river, I don't think he'd bet that much, since you are unlikely to have enough to call with. It's much more likely in my mind that he has nothing, but is afraid you have a bigger nothing, like an Ace-high busted flush draw.

The other reason is that if he actually held a big hand, he probably had it on the turn, and would've probably bet again after getting 400 called on a draw-heavy flop. If he actually has a big hand, I think 22 is the one, and in that case, I still think he's likely to bet out on the river, or check-raise a lesser amount.

Interesting hand; I'm curious to hear your thoughts and the results.

Re: ub 50-100 river checkraise #1
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi cwl,

[ QUOTE ]
a good percentage of the time im winning on the turn and he is drawing fairly thin. when i check the turn i think i stand a very good chance of getting a pottish sized bet on the river, either when he bluffs at it or when i make a bet that looks a lot like me betting a busted draw. this also minimizes the risks of getting bet off my hand or putting in too much with a second best hand. my hand is good enough that i dont really need to make him fold but not good enough that i want to catch a ton of heat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent thought process and explanation.

I would tend to call on the river, because of two things. One is that he has plenty of reason to think you don't have much, and yet he bet a lot. If he had a hand "worth" 4800 on the river, I don't think he'd bet that much, since you are unlikely to have enough to call with. It's much more likely in my mind that he has nothing, but is afraid you have a bigger nothing, like an Ace-high busted flush draw.

The other reason is that if he actually held a big hand, he probably had it on the turn, and would've probably bet again after getting 400 called on a draw-heavy flop. If he actually has a big hand, I think 22 is the one, and in that case, I still think he's likely to bet out on the river, or check-raise a lesser amount.

Interesting hand; I'm curious to hear your thoughts and the results.

[/ QUOTE ]

People regularly make pot bets at higher stakes, so it's just opponent dependent. You can't just say that "if he had something good, he wouldn't bet so big".