Mucked the best hand, WWYD?
 

I hosted a 24-player tournament last weekend. About 2 hours into the game (after the re-buy period), there was a hand that caused some trouble:

There was heavy betting between 2 players to the river. On the river, one player (the shorter stack) went all-in and was called by the other player. The first player showed 2 pair. The second player threw his cards face down into the center of the table. Before the cards even hit the felt, he said "I want to play those!", and grabbed them and turned over a flush. His cards came nowhere near any other mucked cards, there was no doubt they were his 2 hole cards. He said he meant to turn them face-up to show, but instead threw them face-down. Without the flush, he had only A-high, I tend to believe he knew he had a flush or wouldn't have otherwise made such a call...

The decision was made, his hand was dead, and the other player got an undeserved HUGE pot (he went on to come in first place overall, the other guy was crippled and went out a few hands later).

I hated to force that ruling on the other guy, he is a regular player at my games and wins less often than the other guys, in some ways I'd have liked to see him win one for a change. The guy who benefited from this ruling wins often when he plays (this has nothing to do with rules being rules, of course).

I'm getting to the point where I'm considering having people sign a hard-copy of Bob's Rules and the TDA tournament additions before every game. It was painful to uphold that ruling...


Rules are rules, but WWYD in this situation?

Re: Mucked the best hand, WWYD?
 

rules ARE rules, and rules are what you set ahead of time. I see no reason why his hand should be dead if you can easily tell what his cards are. he didn't call just to throw his cards away, he deserved that pot, and you took it away from him, way to go.

Re: Mucked the best hand, WWYD?
 

I'm actually shocked at how much I have read about this problem on here. My circle of friends created what we call the "Poker Club" and drafted a rule set that we all signed. According to our rule set, his hand would be dead just as you enforced. But to avoid people doing that, I would say hurry up and draft something that everyone signs and post it in the room that you play in. Also whenever we have a proposed rule change (i.e. buy in amount or blind structure), we take a vote. Not saying it's the best way, but it works.

Re: Mucked the best hand, WWYD?
 

Bad ruling IMO. I think you used a technicality when you shouldn't have. In the best spirit of the game, I'd rule that his hand was not dead

Re: Mucked the best hand, WWYD?
 

If you were going to try to write a rule book that contained a set-in-stone ruling for EVERY possible poker situation, you'd be working for a long, long time (I know- my house rules have been a partial draft for years).


Reasonable judgement and interpretation have to be allowed- better that "cards speak" than to have some technicality that flies in the face of common sense cause an argument.

Re: Mucked the best hand, WWYD?
 

a) His cards aren't dead because he tossed them. They're not dead until they touch the muck - which they didn't.
b) Even if they did - and he announced his mistake prior to them hitting the muck - the hand should be declared live in a friendly home game - IF he can declare his cards (suits too) and those cards are readily found at the top of the muck

Re: Mucked the best hand, WWYD?
 

[ QUOTE ]
a) His cards aren't dead because he tossed them. They're not dead until they touch the muck - which they didn't.
b) Even if they did - and he announced his mistake prior to them hitting the muck - the hand should be declared live in a friendly home game - IF he can declare his cards (suits too) and those cards are readily found at the top of the muck

[/ QUOTE ]

You, I would play with, OP, I would never play in a game like that. WAY to serious for a home game, seriously, lighten up, have FUN.

Re: Mucked the best hand, WWYD?
 

Hand is not dead since it didn't touch the muck. You guys blew it. Not a casino in the world would have called it dead.

Re: Mucked the best hand, WWYD?
 

1st of all, the muck does not have a magical power that makes hands dead. If the cards touch the muck but are clearly identifiable, the hand should not be dead automatically. The ruling should reflect the best interest of the game.

If it was his intent to muck the hand, then I would say it was dead. In this case the player clearly intended to table his hand, and just made a mistake. No reason for a dead hand to be called.

Re: Mucked the best hand, WWYD?
 

Did anyone see his motion that can corroborate his story? That is important.