$22: UTG confusion
 

I really have no idea what to do here with the two biggies left to act. I'd put their ranges at 77+, ATo+ with what they'd been calling with.

PartyPoker, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

Hero (t2170)
CO (t725)
Button (t2160)
SB (t2475)
BB (t470)

Preflop: Hero is in UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="red">Hero ?</font>

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

Raise 3X BB, see how it plays out from there.

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

[ QUOTE ]
Raise 3X BB, see how it plays out from there.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would seem like one solution, thus, my confusion. If one of the 2000k stacks pushes, do I fold? If I fold I'll have 1570 left, 1370 after posting the BB the next hand. Assuming thats all bad news for me is this a push or fold situation?

Blah.

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

Eh, I'd push here. The big stacks aren't gonna call you with anything but the best hands and the shorties might come along with weaker aces.

That being said, this might only be minorly +EV (I am pretty sure it isn't -EV although I am playing and don't wanna run it thru SNGPT) so I could be wrong.

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

You can't raise... Its a push or fold...and if the two big stacks know how to fold small PP..I'm definitely open-pushing...The BB will likely be all-in and AJ is crushing his range to be all-in.

The CO might be all-in this hand as well....

Side note: In these spots before - I've limped in and then usually gone for the re-push if the biggies limp and shorties push...but then folded if the biggies are tight players and push. Any comments on that play?

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

Hmm, I guess it depends on your read... I think you're fine pushing too, I've definitely done it with worse hands.

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm, I guess it depends on your read... I think you're fine pushing too, I've definitely done it with worse hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? You're second stack here with 2 shorties. What other hands are you pushing OOP in this situation?

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

[ QUOTE ]
I really have no idea what to do here with the two biggies left to act. I'd put their ranges at 77+, ATo+ with what they'd been calling with.

PartyPoker, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

Hero (t2170)
CO (t725)
Button (t2160)
SB (t2475)
BB (t470)

Preflop: Hero is in UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="red">Hero ?</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think of this as myself being "2nd stack with two shorties", a call and a loss from the big stack spells absolute doom for him. You have just as much leverage as anyone else here. Its close, but I'd probably push this...heck, AQ and maybe AK would fold anyway. Maybe not at a 22 actually.

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

You seem to have come around full circle on your line. Are you pushing this? BTW, I'm very confident on my range for the BTN, he's had over t2000 since the first orbit. SB may be a little wider, but he's just gotten his stack so its hard to say as he was playing more hands to survive.

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

I decided pushing was a better option considering the blinds coming up soon.

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

Raising and folding to a reraise with 10.5xbb is a big leak imo, blinds coming up or not.

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

This is one of those rare spots where I will often min-raise. It will almost certainly be the first time my opponents have seen me do this. The min-raise UTG tends to induce enough fear to keep the big stacks from being too aggressive without a better hand. If I get re-raised I can walk away with a minimal loss.

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

[ QUOTE ]
You seem to have come around full circle on your line. Are you pushing this? BTW, I'm very confident on my range for the BTN, he's had over t2000 since the first orbit. SB may be a little wider, but he's just gotten his stack so its hard to say as he was playing more hands to survive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Poor wording on my part. I meant the large stacks may fold AQ/AK to a push here (not you). I like the AJ push...no circle, more like a crescent moon.

At a 22 though, you may get some stupid calls, but I think its still a fine play.

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

SNGPT says push over fold (+1.3%) putting the biggies at very tight and shorties at very loose.

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

[ QUOTE ]
SNGPT says push over fold (+1.3%) putting the biggies at very tight and shorties at very loose.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm actually kinda surprised at the results when you open up the shorties ranges and tighten up the biggies range, which is in my OP.

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

I think you have to ask yourself a few questions:

Are bigstacks tight?
Are bigstacks donkish?
Do I need these chips right now?

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

I like calling or minraising over pushing. Those big stacks are probably not as tight as you think, and either of them calling with 55 is a disaster. Also, no fing way either of them folds AQ.

Anyway, unless you have a solid read that one of them is a good player I like a limp and then call the BB's inevitable push. This is a situation (IMO) where the $6-22s differ greatly from the higher level games. These people are far too stupid to do what's good for them. The BB will fold all but the best hands if there's a call and a push in front of him, for example. People at the 22s do not evaluate the situation. They have either a big stack or a little stack, good cards or bad cards.

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

Wow, what a gross spot. I don't like pushing, partly because of the stack distribution, and partly because the BB will call with an enormous range (though not any-2, this being a $22). Of course AJo is a favorite over that range but, nonetheless, the more he calls, the less $EV you make. I like minraisng better than pushing, but I think I actually...errrr....fold.

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, what a gross spot. I don't like pushing, partly because of the stack distribution, and partly because the BB will call with an enormous range (though not any-2, this being a $22). Of course AJo is a favorite over that range but, nonetheless, the more he calls, the less $EV you make. I like minraisng better than pushing, but I think I actually...errrr....fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding isn't a bad option here and I would do it sometimes depending on the table dynamics. If I had a few less chips it would probably be my default. Here I think you have enough chips to make a speculative min-raise and see what happens.

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

I just fold because it's much easier to play when you don't have cards in front of you. I really don't feel like tangling here. Maybe on occasion I'll push, but folding just feels much better.

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

I'm surprised at the amount of pushers. Those two small stacks would put my all-in brakes on. Unless the larger stacks are so aggressive they would push with a large range, a small raise looks good here. Also, how much fold equity do you have with that small stack in the BB?

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

with two shortstacks that you will happily play against I'd raise to t450 and fold to bigstacks push. Other bigstacks most likely won't get out of line with stack sizes the way they are.

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

This is exactly where I will experiment in the future with the ominous miniraise. I hate others doing this but I hate even more that this seems to be effective in the low PS buy ins. I always seem to be the only one fighting back with an all-in.

Re: $22: UTG confusion
 

If the bigstacks are really that tight you can push. I think SNGPT overvalues this situation btw, because you steal chips from the very small stack, which is good.