QT, turn bluffraise, retarded ?
 

CO(40/30) opens, Button calls, I call in SB with QTo, BB calls.

Flop Kh9c6c, I have Tc, checked to pfr who bets, Button calls, I call, BB calls.

Turn 5s, checked to the button(41/10/0.6, over 100 hands) who Bets, I raise...

Re: QT, turn bluffraise, retarded ?
 

First reaction: Looks a little too fancy. Obviously everything's fine until then, but at that point it's over.

Re: QT, turn bluffraise, retarded ?
 

Id be folding this preflop. On the turn I dont think this works often enough especially since the BB is yet to act.

Re: QT, turn bluffraise, retarded ?
 

Is that a standard call PF? I don't think so. I'm not a big fan of the turn. Button is a loose passive player and CO doesn't look like the kind of player that never calls two cold on the turn. BB is still there too. The pot is 7 BB and you investing two to win it. You have to be right a lot here. I don't think you are.

Re: QT, turn bluffraise, retarded ?
 

What do you think BB has that will make this less good ?

Re: QT, turn bluffraise, retarded ?
 

mainly a flush draw. If he calls to on the turn are you giving up?

Re: QT, turn bluffraise, retarded ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What do you think BB has that will make this less good ?

[/ QUOTE ]
What you're trying to represent. It won't happen often, but it's a possibility.

Edit: flush draw too

Re: QT, turn bluffraise, retarded ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is that a standard call PF? I don't think so. I'm not a big fan of the turn. Button is a loose passive player and CO doesn't look like the kind of player that never calls two cold on the turn. BB is still there too. The pot is 7 BB and you investing two to win it. You have to be right a lot here. I don't think you are.

[/ QUOTE ]

We have to win it about 22% - 8.7% = 13.5% if we assume we have zero implied odds those times that we miss the river and also assume that we don't continue our bluff on the river.

Trix,
Do you think you are going to win this pot right now 13.5% of the time?

Re: QT, turn bluffraise, retarded ?
 

I´m betting the river.

Re: QT, turn bluffraise, retarded ?
 

Why would you give up if you think he has a flushdraw and it doesn´t hit ?

Re: QT, turn bluffraise, retarded ?
 

It just seems like you are investing a lot to try and fold two players in a pot that isnt all that big. Does this really work that often?

Thoughts/results
 

Thought Button would raise the flop if he had a read hand to protect it, so thought I had a good chance of getting him to fold. I´m representing 87, 65 or such here.

The pfr will almost allways fold after checking here when it comes for two cold.

I´d think it would be weird for BB to check-call a good king on the flop and he may even fold one here for two cold if he did. If he has 87, then it sucks, but thats life.

results: Button called me down with KJ, wtf ? really thought he would raise that on the flop, guess not.

Re: QT, turn bluffraise, retarded ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
It just seems like you are investing a lot to try and fold two players in a pot that isnt all that big. Does this really work that often?

[/ QUOTE ]

The irony is, these plays only work when the pot is small.

Re: QT, turn bluffraise, retarded ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It just seems like you are investing a lot to try and fold two players in a pot that isnt all that big. Does this really work that often?

[/ QUOTE ]

The irony is, these plays only work when the pot is small.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you hardly ever employ this move at 3/6, are you making a mistake?

Re: QT, turn bluffraise, retarded ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you hardly ever employ this move at 3/6, are you making a mistake?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes you are making a mistake because instead of hardly ever doing this at 3/6, you should ABSOLUTELY NEVER do it at 3/6.

Cartman

Re: QT, turn bluffraise, retarded ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you hardly ever employ this move at 3/6, are you making a mistake?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes you are making a mistake because instead of hardly ever doing this at 3/6, you should ABSOLUTELY NEVER do it at 3/6.

Cartman

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: QT, turn bluffraise, retarded ?
 

That's a lot of work with a pretty bad hand to win a pretty small pot. I'm just too lazy to put moves like this to battle over a few bets with air. I'm perfectly happy with folding preflop or the turn.

Re: QT, turn bluffraise, retarded ?
 

I fold preflop, on the flop, and on the turn.

Re: QT, turn bluffraise, retarded ?
 

Given his stats I think button has something he is taking to showdown too often for this to be profitable. You also don't know for sure if the preflop raiser is letting go of his pp or whatever. If your image is super tight at this point then MAYBE, but else I think there are too many if's compared to your investment.

Just a thought: Perhaps this this move has a better success rate at the lower limits than at the higher limits, despite the calling station tendencies at the lwoer limits. To observant high limit players this can look like a steal due to the preflop raiser's check resulting in them calling down with less of a hand while at the lower limits this looks like a monster because they themselves don't have a good enough understanding of the game to even think of this move.

Will you always call in the sb with this hand given this line up?