vulnerable overpair on a very coordinated board
 

well my last hand was played a bit too aggressively, heres one that i think may have been played too passively, but then again, considering the opposition and action, maybe not

SB is 14/9/1.4
MP1 is 23/13/1.3
CO is 16/12/1.5

none of these guys have done anything spectacular that stands out in my mind

Party Poker 100.00/200.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (17.00 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, MP1 calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, MP1 calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

River: (14.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, MP1 checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>...

Re: vulnerable overpair on a very coordinated board
 

if MP1 had BB stats and CO had CO's stats i wouldn't be at all sad about tossing JJ. given MP1 is a bit looser, CO's hand range opened up a bit so the cold cap is fine.

given that sb called id be worried, moreso when sb bets into the capped field here. i really like your flop call.

i would like it even more if it was followed by a turn raise.

i think raising the turn is best b/c you charge flush draws, are very unlikely to be 3 bet if you are beat, and if you are 3bet its really the easiest fold ever.

Barron

Re: vulnerable overpair on a very coordinated board
 

PREFLOP: You have two aggressive players here with the action starting from middle position, you hand is still very strong for the situation. I think your cap is just fine, an alternative strategy to capping is just cold calling to see if the MP1 will cap or not.

FLOP: Looks good, there is no point in building the pot right now, calling is the right play. The value of your hand is going to change dramatically with the turn card.

TURN: I see that your just trying to get to the showdown as cheaply as possible which is a reasonable strategy. But I think you actually have the perfect situation to raise the turn and heres some reasons why:

1) your hand is now much stronger given the turn blank.
2) It is clear now that you certainly have a better hand than MP1 and the CO IMO.
3) Three people have already committed a turn bet, which means a raise by you has tremendous value since you may get three people to call your turn raise, which is definitely +EV for your hand, and if any or all of them fold that is also obviously +EV for your hand.

4) This is the most important reason why raising the turn is correct, and if this reason is not in place then you should just call, and that is, the SB looks to me to be a very straight forward conservative player, meaning if he 3 bets you, you can trust that it will mean you have 2 outs or less and you can make an easy fold. The best situation you can have to raise the turn is when you know exactly how to handle a 3 bet, whether it be when you have the nuts, so you'll know you should cap it, or if you have a hand like yours against this very predictable opponent which will allow you to bow out gracefully if he 3 bets.

RIVER: Given that you just called the turn, and now everyone checks the river I think a bet looks right. It looks to me like the SB has either a broken nutflush draw or TT and hes worried his hand is no good, and I already think you have the other guys beat, And given this action nobody is going for a river checkraise which makes it that much more correct to bet. I wouldnt be surprised if you were called in two places by lesser hands.

Re: vulnerable overpair on a very coordinated board
 

The reasons given for raising the turn have been very well made; that said, I've seen myself play it both ways.

With SB's figures of 14/9/1.4, fold on the turn is also a candidate for discussion. After all SB is tight, non aggro cc'ing from SB in a capped pot &amp; betting out. I'd prlly still vote it out, but against some oppo's, that you knew well, you could lose the hand on the turn - but it sure is tought to.

I'm not overly convinced about 'this player' betting out on the flop AcK , but I'd sure vote for 10-10c (after the river chk) - sometimes that vision of a trotter can distort the value of our hand and make us committ ourselves to the hand by betting out. With AcK, we tend to be more relaxed, we know we're not going anywhere on the flop, but with 10-10c we might just face a tough decision - one that should result in a fold - on occasions we try to buy ourselves into the pot in order to avoid such a decision.

chaos

Re: vulnerable overpair on a very coordinated board
 

I should add that SB on AcK discounts with the persistent betting on both streets and the subseqeunt mid-position calls (which wreak of high clubs).

chaos

Re: vulnerable overpair on a very coordinated board
 

i vote rasie the turn. one hand sb could be betting is TT w/ a Club

Re: vulnerable overpair on a very coordinated board
 

well yeah, the turn was pretty much the street i had questions about with this hand, it looks like it is a raise for the reasons everyone has stated, i was just a bit worried about wtf SB is calling 4 bets with and betting into the field on this board with

anyway, SB folded(i guessing AK with the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]) both the other guys called and one of them had QQ

Re: vulnerable overpair on a very coordinated board
 

Good post Barron. I was going to follow up and say the same thing but now I don't need to.

Re: vulnerable overpair on a very coordinated board
 

I like your preflop cap and flop call. As the other posters have said I would prefer a turn raise. I am curious what people think of the river bet. I think I'd check behind, but then of course, I play like a wuss when I'm playing 100/200 or 150/300. Also, what would have been your line if someone had bet into you after the SB check on the river?

Re: vulnerable overpair on a very coordinated board
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think raising the turn is best b/c you charge flush draws, are very unlikely to be 3 bet if you are beat, and if you are 3bet its really the easiest fold ever.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you fire again on a safe river card or take the free showdown?