Quick one.
 

Loose, mostly passive, good B&M game. Usually 6-7 to the flop for 1 bet, or 4-5 for a raise.

A note about the BB in this hand: In the hour and a half I've been at the table he has been doing a lot of calling, and has burned through a rack and a half. I haven't seen him raise once.

I open limp UTG+2 with 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3 more limpers and both blinds call.

6 players

Flop: J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Sb checks, BB checks, I bet, 1 MP caller, BB calls.

3 players

Turn: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

BB checks, I bet, MP folds, BB raises, I 3-bet, BB 4-bets, I call.

2 players

River: T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BB bets, I turbo muck.

Comments?

Re: Quick one.
 

Although I don't think you're ahead on this river very much, I still think you have to pay it off because you've inflated the pot so much on the turn. From these types of players, one raise is about the same as a 4-bet, that is, in order for them to raise they'd need the same type of hand to 4-bet with. I think against this player I'd just call it down unless I improved after the turn raise and hope to see J7 or J6.

Re: Quick one.
 

unless you have seen him specifically play two pair passively before, you have to call the river.

Re: Quick one.
 

Why would you call the last raise on the turn but muck the river?

Folding the river for one bet getting 13.5:1 with a set on a relatively innocuous board? Come on. I'd have to see someone not raise in 150 hours (vs your 1.5) to do that.

Re: Quick one.
 

This fold sucks, I call here everytime. If you're not willing to call this down, don't 3bet the turn.

Re: Quick one.
 

You haven't been playing with this guy anywhere near long enough to make this kind of laydown. Even against a player you knew very well, this would rarely be a good laydown. If you think you need to make this kind of laydown, you should do it on the turn, not the river.

Re: Quick one.
 

i hate the river.

Re: Quick one.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you call the last raise on the turn but muck the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I was pretty sure he had turned a straight, and I wanted to see if I could fill up.

Re: Quick one.
 

[ QUOTE ]
From these types of players, one raise is about the same as a 4-bet, that is, in order for them to raise they'd need the same type of hand to 4-bet with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. So how often do you think that type of player 4-bets the turn with just two pair (about 7th nut)?

Re: Quick one.
 

I agree with this, Carl. You have to at least get to a showdown with this hand. If you were that concerned with the straight on the turn, call the turn raise and call a river bet uninproved. This way, you can still raise the river if you pair, and get to see the showdown for the same amount of BBs.

In other words, if you believe this type of player would need the same type of hand to 4 bet as he would to 2 bet, then raising the 2 bet doesnt make alot of sense, if your plan is to muck to a 4 bet.