QTo - i can\'t stop folding (also pfr, flop coldcall, and turn check)
 

donk 1 is loose. like 40/2
donk 2 is also loose - somewhere around 40/2 as well.
tag has "tag" stats.

i have not noted anything about these players over ~40 hands.

Preflop: i have Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on the button.
donk 2 in utg limps, folds to me and <font color="#CC3333">i raise</font>, TAG calls in the SB, donk 1 calls in the BB.

ugh.

Flop (8 SB): Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">TAG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">donk 1 raises</font>, donk 2 coldcalls, <font color="gray">i coldcall?</font>, <font color="#CC3333">TAG 3-bets</font>, donk 1 calls, donk 2 calls, i call.

Turn: (10 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
TAG checks, donk 1 checks, donk 2 checks, <font color="gray">i check?</font>

River: (10 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">TAG bets</font>, donk 1 calls, donk 2 calls, <font color="gray">i fold?</font>

Re: QTo - i can\'t stop folding (also pfr, flop coldcall, and turn check)
 

I think I like a limp PF a little bit better, but not by much. What kind of WTSD do villains have? can having the initiative win you the pot? I don't know what limit this is.

TAG could be on a flush draw w/ that many people in the hand on the flop. I'd rather 3bet and keep/take the lead in the hand.

Turn gets ugly w/ how the hand played out so far, 3betting the flop would make the turn easier. The way it played, I'd check and call the river. Hope to see T9 and KJ and such.

Re: QTo - i can\'t stop folding (also pfr, flop coldcall, and turn chec
 

[ QUOTE ]
Turn gets ugly w/ how the hand played out so far

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What hand is a TAG bet/3betting here and then checking the turn with? Nothing better than Hero. Must bet the turn, especially because you have some ok straight outs even if the TAG is getting retarded with a better hand. I'd 3bet the flop as well.

Re: QTo - i can\'t stop folding (also pfr, flop coldcall, and turn chec
 

I would 3-bet the flop. You face the only half decent player with 2 and you have the best hand quite a bit. I do PF all the time.

Re: QTo - i can\'t stop folding (also pfr, flop coldcall, and turn chec
 

[ QUOTE ]
What hand is a TAG bet/3betting here and then checking the turn with? Nothing better than Hero.

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No just nothing at all. This guy isn't a TAG. The PF CC and then this nonsense. He’s bad.

Re: QTo - i can\'t stop folding (also pfr, flop coldcall, and turn check)
 

After TAG checks the turn, I would have put him on AT [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or T9. If this were HU, I'd check it through, but with so many players out there willing to call a bet, I'd let them do so.

Flop deserves a 3-bet, imo. It makes the correct play on an unimproved turn a lot more clear.

River, I think you have odds to call. It looks like TAG was going for a check/raise on the turn but you have top pair in an enormous pot for just one more bet. And it's not like anyones hand is well defined.

Re: QTo - i can\'t stop folding (also pfr, flop coldcall, and turn chec
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What hand is a TAG bet/3betting here and then checking the turn with? Nothing better than Hero.

[/ QUOTE ]

No just nothing at all. This guy isn't a TAG. The PF CC and then this nonsense. He’s bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on the river bet I have no clue what he could have but the first two postflop streets would be a reasonable (albeit obvious to us) way to play a flush draw.

Re: QTo - i can\'t stop folding (also pfr, flop coldcall, and turn chec
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What hand is a TAG bet/3betting here and then checking the turn with? Nothing better than Hero.

[/ QUOTE ]

No just nothing at all. This guy isn't a TAG. The PF CC and then this nonsense. He’s bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on the river bet I have no clue what he could have but the first two postflop streets would be a reasonable (albeit obvious to us) way to play a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess ATs is possible, but CC in the SB with that wouldn't be my first choice. Though it's better then folding I guess.

Re: QTo - i can\'t stop folding (also pfr, flop coldcall, and turn chec
 

i don't know - if i 3-bet the flop here am i basically going to show this down if i can get there for two more bb (regardless of whether the flop gets capped)? because i really don't like the sound of that.

fast forwarding through to the river, though, only a couple people have answered. i thought it really felt like the tag had KT or some weirdly played 33.

Re: QTo - i can\'t stop folding (also pfr, flop coldcall, and turn chec
 

[ QUOTE ]
i don't know - if i 3-bet the flop here am i basically going to show this down if i can get there for two more bb (regardless of whether the flop gets capped)? because i really don't like the sound of that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it really depends on how exactly it goes down. I wouldn't go to SD 100% if capped.