Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences
 

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I think it matters tremendously; specifically in holding yourself and others accountable for what you do. If someone had to do something it can't be right to judge them for what they do.

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What makes it right to judge them if they do have free will?

Its not the point I was raising anyway. What I'm asking you is how you would behave differently if you discovered that your will was free?

chez

Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences
 

But you can do whatever you choose to do. The only things you can't do are the things you don't choose to do.

Why not choose to do something enjoyable? That might cheer you up and help you get your mind off it.

Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences
 

If a man driving his car slips on the ice and hits another car filled with black people he should not be punished.

If a man driving his car decides he hates black people and bashes his car into a van full of black people he should be punished.

I can blame the person in the second example but not in the first.

Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences
 

[ QUOTE ]
If a man driving his car slips on the ice and hits another car filled with black people he should not be punished.

If a man driving his car decides he hates black people and bashes his car into a van full of black people he should be punished.

I can blame the person in the second example but not in the first.

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That's because one is an act of will and one isn't, makes no difference if the will is free. In the second case we take action because the nature of that man (free will or not) is unacceptable to us.

chez

Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think it matters tremendously; specifically in holding yourself and others accountable for what you do. If someone had to do something it can't be right to judge them for what they do.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't have it both ways. I'll go along with either. If they can't be judged because they don't have free will, then you can't judge them because you don't either. To judge is about making decisions, zombies can't be said to be doing that.

Determinism is no bar to free will.

Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences
 

Why should an objective reality satisfy you? If anything is at fault surly it’s your expectations.

If you want satisfaction, you should design your own personal perception of reality, which can readily fit in with these expectations. Its what most other people do.

Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences
 

"
Determinism is no bar to free will.
"

Can you expand? I don't see how this is possible.

Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences
 

No offense, but I think anyone who buys completely into determinism either secretly seeks to alleviate their responsibility or has no common sense whatsoever.

Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences
 

While I do not live according to determinism, it does seem more rational. Name one decision you make that isn't due to some past event? I'm actually writing my final philosophy paper on determinism. In the paper, we are to discuss why determinism is right.. and then be able to give problems others will see with your arguments - and then prove those wrong.

My one question for determinists is if our actions are predeterminied, why then try to argue with others to prove them wrong. If they are libertarianists, then they can't help that. So why try to change their mind? (Does this make sense?)

Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences
 

Why? Because we can't not do it. Or, because we will do it.