5/10: QQ vs. lolo
 

So for those of you who don't know lolo, he's a super LAG. I haven't played an entire orbit this session yet when I get dealt QQ. Anyways, I'm curious to see what people think of the line taken here and if I should just fold to the turn bet. Lolo knows me as a super-aggressor as well and has even commented "man u push hard" in the last 24 hours. Anyways, comments/thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks,
-Ace



Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

SB ($1116)
BB ($1042)
UTG ($3414.52)
MP ($2163)
CO ($1083)
Hero ($1000)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $5.
UTG calls $10, MP calls $10, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $60</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls $50, MP calls $50.

Flop: ($195) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($195) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $150</font>, MP folds, Hero calls $150.

River: ($495) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $790</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $1285

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG doesn't show.
Outcome: UTG wins $1285. </font>

Re: 5/10: QQ vs. lolo
 

It may be different at 5/10, but up to 2/4 I feel as though these river overbets are almost always the near nuts.

Re: 5/10: QQ vs. lolo
 

Lolo is capable of having quad aces here, and also capable of having 74s.

Re: 5/10: QQ vs. lolo
 

Would you play Ax this way (until the river?)? If yes, I'd call. If no, I'd fold.

My guess is he thinks you don't have an ace. You have no clue what he has, at all. He wins this round. Fold.

Oh yeah, if you want to play the crazy variance train that is 5/10 NL 6 max (I hate this game), push the turn. He might be "good" enough to call with some wacky hands you beat.

Against an unknown, I like your line and I'd fold the river.

Re: 5/10: QQ vs. lolo
 

Have you seen him raise small pairs in EP? A lot of super LAG's do. This really feels 50/50 to me. Against two opponents who limped called with your button raise, they could still play on with some random ace thinking you're just using your position to put pressure on them. Part of this hand feels like he may have turned or rivered some kind of boat, but at the same time he could have air. I'm just debating in my mind if it's better to just take a stab on the flop. The primary problem with this hand is obviously that villian feels pretty confident that in a multi-way pot you're not going to check this flop or just call this turn. So it lessens, but doesn't eliminate the fact that you don't have an ace, then of course the pressure is on. I think you need to show strength somewhere, the question is where and how without bloating the pot too much. I think the flop is the best bet, and then use your position.

P.S. This may be obvious to a lot of people, but I hope next time you do hit this kind of flop against him, that you play it the exact same way - then smile and take his money.

Re: 5/10: QQ vs. lolo
 

How optimally is lolo reading your hand here? My guess is you'd have an ace or a full house basically never.

I think you should call.

Re: 5/10: QQ vs. lolo
 

[ QUOTE ]
Have you seen him raise small pairs in EP?

[/ QUOTE ]

lolo can raise any two in EP !!

Re: 5/10: QQ vs. lolo
 

[ QUOTE ]
How optimally is lolo reading your hand here? My guess is you'd have an ace or a full house basically never.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very good point. If lolo is as good as most ppl say he is, then he would have picked up on the fact that Ace would have raised with a big hand much earlier (given what I know of how you play from your posts)

Re: 5/10: QQ vs. lolo
 

[ QUOTE ]
Lolo is capable of having quad aces here, and also capable of having 74s.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well that makes it almost impossible to give advice for the river. So, let's backtrack. I assume you would be raising the turn if you had an ace or any other strong hand. What about min-raising the turn here (don't cringe) and pray for a river check by him.

Re: 5/10: QQ vs. lolo
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Have you seen him raise small pairs in EP?

[/ QUOTE ]

lolo can raise any two in EP !!

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't played against him. Some super lags like to limp small pairs or other big hands in EP to disguise the times the play T4o and call a raise OOP with it. I don't know his style. I'll just assume he knows how to mix his play up well enough and it's difficult to get a solid read.

Re: 5/10: QQ vs. lolo
 

I think I'd rather bet the 150 myself on the flop against lolo. He most likely figures that when you check that you dont have an Ace, because of the [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]s on the board. He can easily have A-x, or maybe 77 or 44 or something.

As played, I cant call the river, but I dont like it.

Re: 5/10: QQ vs. lolo
 

Hi acehi.

I played some with you and lolo.

I dont like your line. Nothing has changed from turn to river. You didnt have odds to draw to your two outer and lolo will bet again on river a high percentage of the time, so you haven't gained much information about his hand.

lolo knows you dont have the ace, because you would have bet that on flop ("u push hard"). Tough river decision. I bet the flop.

Do you think it means something, that he bets exactly what you have left in your stack? I played a hand with him where i had $612 left on river, and he bet $612. He flopped the nut flush.
I havent played enough with him to know if this is a tell, but a player like him should be good enough to not make tells like that.

interesting hand

Re: 5/10: QQ vs. lolo
 

I dont know him but from your description I agree with you that he can have quad aces or 74s. What I HIGHLY doubt he has, however is A6. With aces other than AK, his overbet doesn't make sense since he can only expect to get called by better hands, unless he knows you to be one to make heroic calls. This seems a lot like nuts/air bet and there is a lot more air than nuts. And your play seems weak. I think I call here. You can beat a lot of air hands.

Re: 5/10: QQ vs. lolo
 

[ QUOTE ]
Would you play Ax this way (until the river?)? If yes, I'd call. If no, I'd fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's pretty counter-intuitive.

Re: 5/10: QQ vs. lolo
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Would you play Ax this way (until the river?)? If yes, I'd call. If no, I'd fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's pretty counter-intuitive.

[/ QUOTE ]

entirely

Re: 5/10: QQ vs. lolo
 

A simple counting argument would suggest calling here. Lolo can have a monster or air, and there are many fewer hands that make a monster.

Re: 5/10: QQ vs. lolo
 

Lolo sounds really good at individual hand reading to be so sure that you will fold here.
If I had AK against a SLAG this is exactly how I and many others would play it.

It amazes me that he is the ~60% sure that u will fold that it would take for him to bluff this if this is a bluff.

I guess I fold, but I have never played him.