Weißbier
 

Correctly pouring a glass of Weißbier is an art which any self-respecting adult Bavarian is expected to have practised well enough to execute flawlessly. (It is a disgrace to be unable to pour the whole half-litre bottle into the glass or — even worse — let foam spill over requiring one to hastily suck it up.)

Anyway, 5/10, should probably be in the other forum, but no, sorry!

Villian is 20/13 200 hands reg. No personal reads of him.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

BB ($985)
UTG ($1377.50)
MP ($621)
CO ($1313.75)
Button ($1220.75)
Hero ($1052.75)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $5.
UTG calls $10, MP calls $10, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero (poster) completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $35</font>, UTG calls $35, MP calls $35, Hero calls $35.

Flop: ($180) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $10</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $77</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $200</font>, BB calls $200, UTG folds, MP folds.

Turn: ($667) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Yea. what now!

Re: Weißbier
 

bet

Re: Weißbier
 

bump!

Re: Weißbier
 

bet

Re: Weißbier
 

meh. i don't like happily getting stacked here like a lemming. how many 2p2ers with AA KK etc would call after it's 3 bets back to them? Moreso, why even check in the first place?

Even if we say he raised QJs from the bb only to 35, that's 6:3 i'm beat:win vs sets. If i can make the hand go in a fashion that i get 6:3 from the pot, cool, play it that way, but how?

To me it seems like i'm against unlikely, 'maybe this, maybe that' hands vs very possible hand.

An AA KK QQ JJ that checked the flop then called 3 bets back in a regulars hands, then will pay off a turn bet or a QJs that raised preflop then checked vs a a 99 TT that raised then checked with a set.

Even if we weight it down to DEF QJs vs 99 TT i am in [censored] street or, if we weight it down to a 50% chance of AA a def. QJs vs TT 99, that then only makes me even money vs his hands, in which i have to try to make sure i go equal amounts against both, rather than simply 'have set, get stacked'.

But everyone must think AA checkcalls this flop often or QJs does this often or sets do this never, which?

Re: Weißbier
 

U make some good points, and I will admit that with the story before hand and the semi hard to follow weird action, and the tone of your post I more or less saw the turn card...saw u had a set and said bet. I also thought it would be cool for the thread to go bet-bump-bet. Anyways I will look at this more and try to offer an opinion but it is definitely a weird spot at this point.

Re: Weißbier
 

against that players stats, i think you are looking at a set a large amount of the time.

is check folding here awful?

Re: Weißbier
 

the combination of the flop check and big cold call sets off huge alarms if the opponent isnt a huge idiot.

Re: Weißbier
 

[ QUOTE ]

is check folding here awful?

[/ QUOTE ]

You check.

1. He bets $350.

2. He bets $600

You?

Re: Weißbier
 

The bet of $10 and raise to $77 have to taken into account. It's not like you each have 50K on the table, the first guy bet $200, MP raised to $800 and you made it $3K. Maybe he checked AA/KK for pot control/to see what develops and now it looks like both bettor and pathetic raiser are weak and you might be attacking weakness so he has to call because he might be good but plans to re-evaluate on the turn. But since this looks like WA/WB on the turn, I like a check.

Re: Weißbier
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

is check folding here awful?

[/ QUOTE ]

You check.

1. He bets $350.

2. He bets $600

You?

[/ QUOTE ]

does his turn bet size change his hand range any?

im not so sure our action should be different based on his bet size.

but if im not folding, im cring all in both times.

Re: Weißbier
 

It doesn't seem like it changes anything other than what are effective odds are going to be. If i agree with my above and say i am behind 2:1 then against the $600 bet it's going to be tricky because i have to be 100% sure i'm going no more money on the river when i'm ahead meaning i can happily checkfold to a bet, if on the river he shoves all his hands, then i've gone 1400:800, anyway that's getting a little too nitpicking.

Against $350 i have a decent shot at getting my showdown odds and the fact against $350 it makes me feel very sad to checkfold bottom set, which i did.

Re: Weißbier
 

Wow, I would never fold there for $350. Could easily be AA/KK.

Re: Weißbier
 

easily is a but much. you said AA KK may check for pot control, yes they may, but rarely anyone does it. just the same way midhigh limit forum when raised on the river always say 'he could be bluffraising', sure he could, but it rarely happens.

Re: Weißbier
 

Could be JJ, too.

Re: Weißbier
 

4 way hand, 12 overcards to your hand could drop, or, 'i raised JJ preflop, got the flop i wanted, i bet', but yea, 'could'.

Re: Weißbier
 

I think if he bets $600 I fold. If he bets $350 I call and c/f the river. Just seems so weak. You could so easily have a draw, why isn't he betting bigger to build a pot and protect his hand? QJ is quite possible for you. Looks like he is very tentative about his holding when he's betting $350.

Edit: And guys will often raise bigger with hands like TT and 99 out of position trying to take it down preflop and if they don't then hoping to either hit a set or have the best hand postflop. This smallish raise against a bunch of limpers looks more like AA/KK than TT/99 to me. Although obviously that is player dependent.

Re: Weißbier
 

[ QUOTE ]
the combination of the flop check and big cold call sets off huge alarms if the opponent isnt a huge idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]notice that cold call isnt really all that big, but it is strong since two players have live hands behind him and have shown some (donkified) interest in the pot.

Re: Weißbier
 

[ QUOTE ]
against that players stats, i think you are looking at a set a large amount of the time.

is check folding here awful?

[/ QUOTE ]
well, i would def check and when he bets (if?), i think only then you can make this decision, but folding looks pretty good to me.

Re: Weißbier
 

[ QUOTE ]
how many 2p2ers with AA KK etc would call after it's 3 bets back to them? Moreso, why even check in the first place?

[/ QUOTE ]

From Villain's perspective, in a six-max game, there is not enough of a difference in value here between a set and AA to warrant a check-fold by you on the turn. Put another way, I don't see how you put Villain on 99 or TT so often here.

Frankly, his raise to $35 from the BB doesn't make much sense no matter what his holding is.