Small pot, deep stacks.
 

I thought the river action on this hand was interesting.

Online NL, 6-handed <font color="white">1358477713</font>

Villain is MP, 188 BB. Seems slightly loose. Sometimes calls raises behind, then usually folds on the flop.

Hero is CO, covers the table, has rarely limped but doesn't seem maniacal. In a past hand, Hero bet 1/2 pot from the BB on 3 streets with a turned royal flush.

Preflop:
UTG posts 1 BB. UTG checks, Villain limps, Hero limps with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Button limps, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop (6 players, 6 BB): T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB folds, 2 checks, Villain bets 2 BB, Hero calls 2 BB, 3 folds.

Turn (2 players, 10 BB): K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Villain bets 3 BB, Hero raises to 12 BB, Villain calls 9 BB.

River (2 players, 34 BB): 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Villain checks, Hero?

Villain has 173 BB left. Hero has the nuts. What is the right size of value bet?

Re: Small pot, deep stacks.
 

Isn't the question a bit leading "size of value bet?"

It sets this up to be "what % of pot do you value bet?" question. I think given the context and prior hand you mentioned you might have considered that this spot warrants betting bigger because a half pot value bet will be thought of as your play with the nuts by a semi thinking player. A push might be seen as a steal and called by a lone 8.

Re: Small pot, deep stacks.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't the question a bit leading "size of value bet?"

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think so. Some people might only mean a small bet on the river when they say value bet. To me, a value bet is a bet where I expect to be ahead on average when called. (This ignores the possibility of getting raised.) Since QJ is the nuts, any bet is a value bet.

Re: Small pot, deep stacks.
 

I make something like 1/5 of the pot here-- if he has 8x, you want him to come over the top of you for sure, but if he only has top pair or 2 pair, a bet that small will get called anyways.

Also, he may try to bluff raise a weak bet, so that gives more EV.

Re: Small pot, deep stacks.
 

how is this even remotely interesting
2/3 or pot it

Re: Small pot, deep stacks.
 

When your bet represents either the nuts, or a busted draw just pot it.

Re: Small pot, deep stacks.
 

[ QUOTE ]
When your bet represents either the nuts, or a busted draw just pot it.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's not what game theory says.

Re: Small pot, deep stacks.
 

[ QUOTE ]
how is this even remotely interesting
2/3 or pot it

[/ QUOTE ]
Sometimes it is wrong to make a 2/3 pot or pot-sized value bet with the nuts. Sometimes you can tell that your opponent is willing to call a lot more, or a lot less. That's part of what makes NL interesting to me. If you don't like this hand, feel free not to comment.

Re: Small pot, deep stacks.
 

[ QUOTE ]
how is this even remotely interesting
2/3 or pot it

[/ QUOTE ]

i think it is

I like all in here

Re: Small pot, deep stacks.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes you can tell that your opponent is willing to call a lot more, or a lot less.

[/ QUOTE ]

Therein lies the rub.