Some HU blind struggle situations
 

I've played these hands over the past few days in the 15-30 Party game and would like some comments on what you guys think the correct turn action should. All three hands were played out of the SB, after 3- betting the button. Assume you have no player inforation on all hands. I realize a couple of the preflop decisions are marginal, but focus on the turn play.

1) A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Flop J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I bet he calls.

Turn:7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]



2) 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]:7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Flop:10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I bet he calls.

Turn: A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]



3) A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Flop:Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet, he calls.

Turn 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Re: Some HU blind struggle situations
 

1) Bet
2) Bet
3) Bet

Re: Some HU blind struggle situations
 

Tough spots to be sure.

But I bet for sure on hand No. 2 (where the ace come on the turn). That card is a two-edged sword. It could have hit him. If it didn't, he might well assume that it hit you and perhaps fold a 6 outer or even something like a 9. The big problem with not betting is the uncertainty you will face when he bets.

I suspect that checking is better on hand 3 where you have the Ak and the board is QT2. With that board, he wont fold on teh turn if he flopped a pair (whereas he might on hand 2 once the ace comes). He will semibluff if he has a gutshot once you check the turn so you don't have to worry tooo much about giving out a free card when you are ahead. But the thing with checking here is that you know what you will do if he bets: You will call. Then, once you call, that leaves uncertainty in his head as to what you will do on the river.

Anyway, all of that is a long way of saying that I would bet hand no. 2 but might check with hand no. 3

Hand No. 1 probably also calls for a bet but that one's even more in the gray zone.

Re: Some HU blind struggle situations
 

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The big problem with not betting is the uncertainty you will face when he bets.


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skp - I love your posts and think you play goot. but what about the uncertainty you face when he calls? or raises, if you bet.

I think you have hands with showdown power in all three, and the only hand with minimial outs if behind is the 77. so for that reason I think I would check and call the two A highs and hope to pick off a bluf or improve because i doubt you get a better hand to fold in a HU blind situation and I'm currently feeling like I'm not getting to showdown enough in these situations.

the 77 hand is tougher cause you may have a value bet and you have no outs. problem is I dont know what to do if raised.

Re: Some HU blind struggle situations
 

Hey SKP,

Thanks for the reply. Am I correct in assuming you are betting and folding to a raise in hand two, (77), and also in hand one (A9), if you did chose to bet?

Re: Some HU blind struggle situations
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The big problem with not betting is the uncertainty you will face when he bets.


[/ QUOTE ]

skp - I love your posts and think you play goot. but what about the uncertainty you face when he calls? or raises, if you bet.

I think you have hands with showdown power in all three, and the only hand with minimial outs if behind is the 77. so for that reason I think I would check and call the two A highs and hope to pick off a bluf or improve because i doubt you get a better hand to fold in a HU blind situation and I'm currently feeling like I'm not getting to showdown enough in these situations.

the 77 hand is tougher cause you may have a value bet and you have no outs. problem is I dont know what to do if raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

I still think these situations when you are out of position heads up with no pair on the turn are by far the toughest in hold em, especially after you have raised preflop. As SKP said, the problem with not betting is the uncertainty when bets. I think so many guys, (especially in the Party 15) game will just about auto call the flop with position in most of these spots. So I think the problem with checking is that they will bet a worse hand behind on the turn a lot of the time. Not that that's all that bad, but it does face you to play a sort of guessing game as to whether or not you are ahead or behind and if you should show your hand down. So while I agree you will probably just about never get a better hand to fold in these situations, I think you will be betting the best hand at least a decent chunk of the time, and will prevent giving a free card. I think a lot of players are probably calling all three of these flops with hands that missed pretty well, just to see what develops on the turn.

So I guess the question is, is check calling better than betting and folding to a raise? I think it's clearly not inthe 77 hand, but I think the other two are a lot closer. Without any player information, and ideas about how often the player in position will bet a worse hand when checked to, I think these are all pretty uncomfortable spots to be in on the turn. Also, without any player info, how big of a mistake could checking and folding be, particularly in the A9 hand?

Re: Some HU blind struggle situations
 

All valid points Stox which is what makes these spots so friggin' tough. But on the 77 hand, you do stand a fair chance of making a better hand laydown. Everyone takes notice when an Ace comes.

[ QUOTE ]
skp - I love your posts and think you play goot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. But you wouldn't think that based on a couple of hands I played against you the other night on Party. Man, I butchered them pretty bad and still have no idea what the hell I was thinking then...heh...

Re: Some HU blind struggle situations
 

no fair. you know me but I dont know you....

Re: Some HU blind struggle situations
 

I prolly fold to a raise with the 77 (because the ace is a scary card to him if he doesn't have one). I will sometimes call, sometimes fold with the A9 based mostly on feel, current image, whether I have layed down other hands recently etc. Of course, I might even chcekraise with the A9(instead of betting) now and then.

Re: Some HU blind struggle situations
 

I know you want to focus on the turn play, but three-betting the preflop without some indication of how the button plays seems a little over the top to me for the first hand. The others are fine, though. Anyway, concerning the turn:

Hand #1) Well, you've certainly managed to make a pretty big pot with not very much. I think you need to represent strength one more time in hopes he'll give up. Fold to a raise and don't put any money in on the river.

Hand #2) Sheesh, this is a tough one. You bet the flop, so he's gonna give less credence to your turn bet. I'm torn between check-calling it down or trying to pick it up here. I think I'm leaning toward betting since, as skp pointed out, that ace should be scary to him too. Here's where you'd really like to know if he's the sort who's capable of raising you with KQ...

Hand #3) Bet. You're not really afraid of a raise here, and you wouldn't mind picking up the pot from someone who doesn't have a pair but could pick one up on the river. Also, KJ or J9 is a possibility you want to charge for.