A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

Don't get me wrong I love the gambling aspect of poker where my AQ can suck out on an AK preflop to double up (or i can win money longterm by taking the AK vs AQ matchup). But what about a new type of tournament that is more fair to a player.

My proposal is for the first half, three quarters etc of a tournament to have any all in showdown before the river pay out based on the odds that a certain hand will win. So if AQ goes against A2 preflop AQ will get 73% of the pot and A2 will get 27%. This will acomplish a few things. First it will make the better players stay in the game longer with better decision making and no fear of losing to suckouts. Conversly it'll be harder to accumulate chips with all in plays this way for good aggressive players but that leads me to my second point. It will reward players for playing poker until the river by paying out 100% of the pot to a person who has a 100% lock on a hand and doesn't feel the need to push a small edge before all the cards are out.

By no means do I think this should replace traditional poker at all but I'm sure there would be some people who would like to give this a shot.

Alright time to flame away.

Re: A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

Fish would hate it.

Re: A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

This would take forever.

Re: A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

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This would take forever.

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Re: A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

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This would take forever.

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As long as you're not drawing dead you stick around. You pretty much have to play everything to the river. meh

Re: A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

Fish would most certainly hate it, but I like the concept. Would definitely need alot of tweaking with the percentages and so on.

Re: A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

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Alright time to flame away.

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I actually think poker tournaments should be half poker playing, half fort-building contest. The player who creates the best and most protective fort out of their chips is allowed to hide behind them for a predetermined amount of time (just long enough to barely eek into the money, if their Fort Hiding Time, or FHT, doesn't run out first), and not be forced into any kind of poker playing, risk taking, or otherwise unpredictable situations whatsoever.

Of course, the forts could contain a little window that will allow the player to peer out and see if they might have Aces, in which case they can rejoin the poker game to play if they'd like. 'Better' players will probably pass up the opportunity to play the Aces if too many players have entered the pot before them, because you won't be able to raise them off it and everyone knows Aces sometimes don't hold up multi-way.

This will of course reduce the fear and frequency of suckouts, making poker the game it was intended to be.

Re: A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

I actually thought about this exact thing yesterday. I can't think of a way to actually make it work, but it's a good idea.

I was thinking something to the extent of decision making. A player wins/lose a hand based on pot odds decision. If you called an all win without the proper odds to win, you automatically lose the hand. If you made a good pot odds decision, the hand plays out as usual.

Obviously, there's no real way of making this work.

Re: A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

What's the point? Without luck Phil Helmuth would win every single one of these anyway. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

I sincerely, sincerely hope that this game is never invented. If it were, fish would not never have a chance to get lucky several times in a row in a STT or MTT, and thus would win even less than they do. Therefore, they would no longer play poker, and we'd all be back to working 9-5.

I'll take the suckouts and the high hourly rate, thank you.

Re: A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

I'd much rather bust someone for 100% of the pot when I catch them stealing a pot with 78s against my aces.

Re: A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

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If it were, fish would not never have a chance to get lucky several times in a row in a STT or MTT, and thus would win even less than they do.

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Fish aren't smart enough to figure this out. Most people playing poker think they are good at it.

To the people saying it will take forever it really won't. After a few hours into the tournament this rule can be lifted and the tourney can be played out in a traditional format.

I personally wouldn't enjoy this type of tournament, but I know some people that would. Before something like this gets implemented however, i'd be more interested in pokerstars offering low to mid limit mixed game tournaments.

Re: A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

recondite,

I respectefully disagree. Fish continue to play because they went through a good run or two. Many fish probably won a MTT for 10k plus because they won 7 races in a row, and sucked out a couple times. Without these massive luck sprees, the fish would quickly quit, and the trout would lose.

Re: A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

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Many fish probably won a MTT for 10k plus because they won 7 races in a row

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Are you serious?

Fish continue to play because there are always new ones joining the game, not because they are making thousands off mtt.

Re: A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but wouldn't it be impossible to bust out if you were short stacked, you could just go all in preflop every time?

Re: A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

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maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but wouldn't it be impossible to bust out if you were short stacked, you could just go all in preflop every time?

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op said it's only that way for the first chunk (say 2 hours).

this makes a lot more sense for cash games than it does for mtt. taking the "running it twice" idea to the end.

Re: A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

I remember quite a few suggestions for variance-less touenament poker (sometimes not entirely variance-less, but that's the spirit). The one and most significant problem is that variance is what gambling is all about. Variance is the opportunity of a complete amateur to take down the WSOP. It is the possibility that a kid that have just learned to play poker last month will win 30K online, few days after depositing $400. This is why so many people are attracted to the the game (of course they have never heard about "variance", they only know _anyone_ can win.), and it is why this game is so exciting.

Taking the variance out will very fast take the money out, and you have just turned MTT poker into some pure strategic game, which might be extremely interesting (I'm not sure) but there will be no big money in it, definitely not like in the normal "AQ sucks out on AK" poker. See, for instance, bridge.

Re: A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

i've heard it said that in the short run, poker is 90% luck and 10% skill...and in the long run, its 10% luck and 90% skill...or something

this would make it much better in the short run, and wouldn't change the long run

this sounds fine, in theory...but what about when all the fish stop making money in the short run, stop having stories to share with their friends, and when phil ivey gets 90% of the pot 10 handed at the 2003 WSOP and Moneymaker doesn't go on to win that tourney

without suckouts and extreme variance...there would be no fish, remember that, embrace it

Re: A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

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This would take forever.

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Literally. You're never drawing completely dead preflop, so you'll have a really hard time busting out if you push every hand preflop.

Re: A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

Learn to embrace the suck-out (& even try it a few times!)

Re: A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

nobody would play chess for money against big blue

Re: A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

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maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but wouldn't it be impossible to bust out if you were short stacked, you could just go all in preflop every time?

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Heh. Was hoping I could be the genius to point this out. Small stack pot Eq would indeed make it impossible to bust. You'd have to implement a rule of <3BB means you are eliminated.

Re: A proposal for a new type of tournament
 

Grow some balls, and stop crying about bad beats.