Open Raising the SB With Pure Trash
 

I tried something new for me at full 6max tables. To wit, occassionally openraising the SB with pure trash against a BB that folds a lot and rarely, if ever reraises. I only tried it occassionally and at times I thought I had a strong table image, like shortly after winning a big pot or having taken down a pot from the SB on the last orbit.

I won the BB 2 out of 3 times. Instead of folding and losing 1.5 SB. I won .5 SB. That's a difference of 2 SB or +0.33BB/hand.

Does anyone else do this? Does everyone else do this? Please note that I'm talking about full 5-6 player games, not 3-4 handed or heads up.

Re: Open Raising the SB With Pure Trash
 

if you show auto profit, then hell yeah do it. I definitely need a read though, and a decent one - especially because sometimes I will flop something just good enough for showdown or good enough to peel - depending on that read.

EDIT: most players aren't nittish enough for me to go into this kind of attack mode, most ppl are too aggro so I have to back way off and play a value game

Re: Open Raising the SB With Pure Trash
 

This is in the shorthanded section of HPFAP. If the BB fold to your raise x% (I really should know this) of the time it is immediatly profitable to raise every hand.

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Re: Open Raising the SB With Pure Trash
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is in the shorthanded section of HPFAP. If the BB fold to your raise x% (I really should know this) of the time it is immediatly profitable to raise every hand.

___1___

[/ QUOTE ]


i had a dinner with a bunch of guys, and stox was among them. he said with a fold bb to steal >50 he will raise any 2 from the sb. i found that interesting. i am typically tihgt from the sb

Re: Open Raising the SB With Pure Trash
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is in the shorthanded section of HPFAP. If the BB fold to your raise x% (I really should know this) of the time it is immediatly profitable to raise every hand.

___1___

[/ QUOTE ]


i had a dinner with a bunch of guys, and stox was among them. he said with a fold bb to steal >50 he will raise any 2 from the sb. i found that interesting. i am typically tihgt from the sb

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like an interesting approach. Wouldn't it also depend on how often your opponent reraised? If you raised 27o from the SB, and the BB reraised, would you have odds to call? What is the worst hand you would call a reraise if you had raised with trash?

Re: Open Raising the SB With Pure Trash
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is in the shorthanded section of HPFAP. If the BB fold to your raise x% (I really should know this) of the time it is immediatly profitable to raise every hand.

___1___

[/ QUOTE ]


i had a dinner with a bunch of guys, and stox was among them. he said with a fold bb to steal >50 he will raise any 2 from the sb. i found that interesting. i am typically tihgt from the sb

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like an interesting approach. Wouldn't it also depend on how often your opponent reraised? If you raised 27o from the SB, and the BB reraised, would you have odds to call? What is the worst hand you would call a reraise if you had raised with trash?

[/ QUOTE ]


i never said i agreed with him

Re: Open Raising the SB With Pure Trash
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is in the shorthanded section of HPFAP. If the BB fold to your raise x% (I really should know this) of the time it is immediatly profitable to raise every hand.

___1___

[/ QUOTE ]


i had a dinner with a bunch of guys, and stox was among them. he said with a fold bb to steal >50 he will raise any 2 from the sb. i found that interesting. i am typically tihgt from the sb

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like an interesting approach. Wouldn't it also depend on how often your opponent reraised? If you raised 27o from the SB, and the BB reraised, would you have odds to call? What is the worst hand you would call a reraise if you had raised with trash?

[/ QUOTE ]


i never said i agreed with him

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said you did either. I am asking you for an opinion on what you think is correct.

Re: Open Raising the SB With Pure Trash
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is in the shorthanded section of HPFAP. If the BB fold to your raise x% (I really should know this) of the time it is immediatly profitable to raise every hand.

___1___

[/ QUOTE ]


i had a dinner with a bunch of guys, and stox was among them. he said with a fold bb to steal >50 he will raise any 2 from the sb. i found that interesting. i am typically tihgt from the sb

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like an interesting approach. Wouldn't it also depend on how often your opponent reraised? If you raised 27o from the SB, and the BB reraised, would you have odds to call? What is the worst hand you would call a reraise if you had raised with trash?

[/ QUOTE ]


i never said i agreed with him

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said you did either. I am asking you for an opinion on what you think is correct.

[/ QUOTE ]


well i still play tight from the sb first in, so i guess you could say im "unconvinced"

Re: Open Raising the SB With Pure Trash
 

Anyone who will fold to your raise around 35% in this situation you should never fold, and should probably always raise 23o against someone who folds 30% or 25% if they are weak postflop.

If they fold 35% of the time, you are paying .75 BB (cost of your raise) to win .75BB (both blinds). If you never win postflop, this would be costing you .225 BB (1.5*.35-.75). But the pot is now 2 BBs. It is very easy to have over .225BB ev in a 2BB pot on an unknown flop as the aggressor, even with 23o. If, for example, your opponent folds 35% of flops, you can autobet and make a .375BB profit (2.5*.35-.5) immediately.

So against an oppenent whowho folds his BB to SB raise 35%, and then folds the flop 35%, you can make a .15 BB profit with 2 uno cards (excuse the Norman Chad reference).

This means 35% is obviously a very conservative number, because you will win sometimes when your opponent calls or raises. You can go pretty low if your opponent sucks postflop.

I think this is a major leak in many tags games, I'm quite surprised by Josh.'s comments in this thread.

Re: Open Raising the SB With Pure Trash
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is in the shorthanded section of HPFAP. If the BB fold to your raise x% (I really should know this) of the time it is immediatly profitable to raise every hand.

___1___

[/ QUOTE ]


i had a dinner with a bunch of guys, and stox was among them. he said with a fold bb to steal >50 he will raise any 2 from the sb. i found that interesting. i am typically tihgt from the sb

[/ QUOTE ]

untrue. my bottom 90% of hands I will always raise. top 10% balanced between raising and completing.

It's mathematically impossible for it to be incorrect to NOT raise your worst hand (23o) from the SB first in if you KNOW BB will fold greater than 50% of the time. I dont see what is so hard here. Maybe you are saying someone will defend more liberally vs a SB steal than a button steal?

Give me 23o in the SB first in vs a 51% folder with no memory a million times in a row please (1:2 and 2:3 structure only).