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-   -   Push, Stop n' Go, or Fold? (Stars $22 180 person SnG) (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=381557)

Jbrochu 11-19-2005 01:55 PM

Push, Stop n\' Go, or Fold? (Stars $22 180 person SnG)
 
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) converter

UTG (t4575)
UTG+1 (t4103)
MP1 (t2230)
MP2 (t2577)
MP3 (t4000)
CO (t5934)
Button (t3388)
SB (t1780)
Hero (t1635)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to t500</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero...?

I've been card dead for 30 to 40 hands and also haven't found many situational spots to take advantage of. I've been at this table for about 25 hands and played 2 of them, in both cases open pushing from LP to take the blinds.

The CO has been tight, and this is the first time he's gone after my blinds. My first instinct was to push, but CO would be getting close to correct odds to call with any two and might well have a better hand anyway.

Folding seems way too weak considering my chip position, so I dismissed that option fairly quickly.

Is this a good spot for the stop n' go, or is my hand strong enough that I should just push?

11-20-2005 02:37 AM

Re: Push, Stop n\' Go, or Fold? (Stars $22 180 person SnG)
 
I think that because you are short-stacked with an M of around 5, this is a hand you can play. I'd probably use a modified stop-n-go, that is to bet the flop unless an ace comes in which case look to c/r.

11-20-2005 03:37 AM

Re: Push, Stop n\' Go, or Fold? (Stars $22 180 person SnG)
 
You're going to give him around 2.3 to 1 odds to call if you pull a stop and go. You're better off pushing, I'd call your flop bet with just about any hand, especially if it leaves me with like 80% of my chips left.

11-20-2005 04:24 AM

Re: Push, Stop n\' Go, or Fold? (Stars $22 180 person SnG)
 
[ QUOTE ]
You're going to give him around 2.3 to 1 odds to call

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why stop and go is better than pushing here.

IMHO, fold &gt; stop and go &gt; push.

the_main 11-20-2005 04:32 AM

Re: Push, Stop n\' Go, or Fold? (Stars $22 180 person SnG)
 
Just considering the chip stacks of you and the other blind, I think the CO is in a wonderful spot to attempt a steal here. I personally would advocate pushing the flop - I believe the only way a Stop and go works is if the CO is raising with air and misses the flop - any legimate raising hand will likely call you down in this spot.
I think there is a good enough chance you are ahead here, and would not mind having everything in pre-flop.

11-20-2005 04:59 AM

Re: Push, Stop n\' Go, or Fold? (Stars $22 180 person SnG)
 
Push.. EP raise and easy muck, CO's range is pretty wide I'd say, I think ur ace might be good for a small lead going into the flop.. S&amp;G is alright, but it really takes some courage to do it on any flop, I think I wanna see 5 cards and not deal with the stress of "PLEASE FOLD!" [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

11-20-2005 05:02 AM

Re: Push, Stop n\' Go, or Fold? (Stars $22 180 person SnG)
 
[ QUOTE ]
Push.. EP raise and easy muck, CO's range is pretty wide I'd say, I think ur ace might be good for a small lead going into the flop.. S&amp;G is alright, but it really takes some courage to do it on any flop, I think I wanna see 5 cards and not deal with the stress of "PLEASE FOLD!" [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't much of an argument against a S&amp;G, but I think you know that.

jcm4ccc 11-20-2005 03:55 PM

Re: Push, Stop n\' Go, or Fold? (Stars $22 180 person SnG)
 
A stop and go is a desperation play in which you are giving 3(!) free cards to your opponent in the hopes that all three will miss him and he will fold a hand that he wouldn't fold preflop. The following conditions should be present:

<ul type="square">[*]You are first to act on the flop[*]You have no preflop FE[*]You are desperate and will need to make a move soon anyway[/list]Only condition 1 applies. This is a terrible spot for a stop-and-go.

Fold or push preflop. I would advocate for pushing. I think the possibility that the CO is attempting a steal, combined with your preflop FE and your decent cards, makes this a better than 50-50 move.

jcm4ccc 11-20-2005 03:57 PM

Re: Push, Stop n\' Go, or Fold? (Stars $22 180 person SnG)
 
[ QUOTE ]
I believe the only way a Stop and go works is if the CO is raising with air and misses the flop

[/ QUOTE ] Not true. For example, what if the CO is raising with a pair of 7s, and three overcards hit on the flop?

Jbrochu 11-21-2005 10:14 AM

Re: Push, Stop n\' Go, or Fold? (Stars $22 180 person SnG)
 
Well, people had strong arguments for the push, the stop n' go, and the fold. This confirms for me that at least I didn't miss an easy decision.

I tried the stop n' go and the flop came K,Q,x. I was called down with K,6s which was a much weaker holding than I suspected from the CO.

In this particular instance a preflop push probably had a reasonable chance of taking down the pot. Thanks for your comments.


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