Trapped in SB with a weak A...
 

The original button raiser is very loose preflop: VP$IP = 61.90 with preflop raise at 22.02%.

The mini limp-reraiser UTG is also very loose, but more selective on what he raises. VP$IP = 48.74 and preflop raise at 7.94

How does this line work for you?

All comments appreciated.

Garland

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (10 handed) converter

MP1 ($313.95)
MP2 ($351.20)
MP3 ($94)
CO ($393.60)
Button ($153.60)
Garland ($412)
BB ($217.80)
UTG ($494.60)
UTG+1 ($450.40)
UTG+2 ($213.60)

Preflop: Garland is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls $4, MP2 calls $4, MP3 calls $4, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $10</font>, Garland calls $8, BB calls $6, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $16</font>, MP1 calls $12, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Button calls $6, Garland calls $6, BB calls $6.

Flop: ($88) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Garland checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $14</font>, MP1 calls $14, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">Garland raises to $58</font>...

Re: Trapped in SB with a weak A...
 

First of all, calling a raise in worst possible position with 4 players left to act behind you in a likely dominated spot is not gut.

Given you've hit your hand though, against these 2 maniacs, I like your line. There arent many options here.

Re: Trapped in SB with a weak A...
 

You're giving them great odds to call with a strong ace, flush draw, or straight draw. You're out of position. You're building a pot with a weak hand. The preflop call is no good. I really don't like any of it, to be honest.

Suggestions:

1) Fold pre
2) Fold on the flop (or call it trying to pair your kicker only - the 8 of course could make the cold caller a straight)
3) Make a serious raise on the flop if you're gonna do it as a bluff (pot sized, so about $130 or so here would do the trick to represent the set or top two or whatever you're trying to represent)

If you're lucky UTG folded KK and the cold caller decided his kicker was no good.

Re: Trapped in SB with a weak A...
 

Look, it's not a real raise, and there's already three in. And then it's not like he can fold for 6 more.

On the flop, no one has said they've got anything, so raise, but it's the last money you put into the pot unless you spike your kicker or hit runner runner straight.

Re: Trapped in SB with a weak A...
 

Trouble with 130 is that, given if anyone calls hero has to shut down, its hard to see him winning on the flop 50% of the time. And anyone with an open ended or nut flush draw may call anyway believing they have implied odds because hero is representing a big hand.

Re: Trapped in SB with a weak A...
 

This is not a spot to be raising in is my point. But if you're gonna do it, you need to make it difficult for these guys to call. $40 is this inflated pot is easy to call. I'd call it with a weak ace to try and pair my kicker and to see what he does on the turn. In position I'd think about stealing this away from them but with two people in the pot with position on me, I'm not real eager to make a move here - especially if I plan to shut down on the turn - that's awful. If you're gonna raise here, be prepared to fire 2/3 to full pot on the turn, not shut down.

If you can't fire two barrels, then call trying to pair the kicker or fold. Taking a stab here and then checking the turn would be disgusting.

Re: Trapped in SB with a weak A...
 

I take your point, but if one of these preflop raisers calls hero's strong reraise against 2 aggressive players, theyre not folding to a 2/3 turn bet, and nearly all of the time hero is in real trouble. Hero could be forced off the best hand easily too.

Re: Trapped in SB with a weak A...
 

Then he shouldnt be raising at all.

Re: Trapped in SB with a weak A...
 

Yeah I think thats right, calling then checking without improvement seems the best line.

Results and thoughts...
 

Multiway pot and a small raise by a loose player, I opted to gamble and hope for a flop with 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or 88x or A8x. the limp-reraise meant nothing to me as he didn't put enough money in to blow anyone off their hand. I've been experimenting finding some hands to gamble with in a multi-way pot, even to a moderate raise, and I think Ax suited is one of them. I think my tightness has been costing me opportunities, and the occasional gamble will (a) throw my observant opponents off what I hold and (b) pay off big when I hit.

Flop: I checked with the intention of giving anyone with a decnt Ace a chance to announce themselves. With the weak flop bet and flat call, I sensed weakness, and I pounced with a check-raise. I thought the key to this was to risk the minimum to claim the hand. I thought $58 was good enough as even Aces with slightly better kickers would have a difficult time calling as I'm reprsenting a huge hand. However, that $58 was the last money I was putting in the pot unless I improved.

Personally, I think check-calling is weak as if I opted for that line, it's likely I'm giving two cards to the river for my opponents. I don't want to wait for the turn because most turn cards would be scare cards, and I don't like to be scared off my hand...I like to scare people myself.

They both folded to my check-raise.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Garland

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (10 handed) converter

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

MP1 ($313.95)
MP2 ($351.20)
MP3 ($94)
CO ($393.60)
Button ($153.60)
<font color="#C00000">Garland ($412)</font>
BB ($217.80)
<font color="#C00000">UTG ($494.60)</font>
UTG+1 ($450.40)
UTG+2 ($213.60)

Preflop: Garland is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls $4, MP2 calls $4, MP3 calls $4, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $10</font>, Garland calls $8, BB calls $6, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $16</font>, MP1 calls $12, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Button calls $6, Garland calls $6, BB calls $6.

Flop: ($88) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Garland checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $14</font>, MP1 calls $14, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">Garland raises to $58</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: $130

Results below:
No showdown. Garland wins $130.