Good Draw?
 

I got 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in middle position. Pretty passive game, a lot of limping and a lot of one guy bets the flop and no one really challenges him. .25-.50 Pot Limit Omaha. I got 50 bucks same as most of the table.

Preflop: 3 calls when it gets to me, I call, Villan pots it to 3, small blind calls, 2 of the original callers before me call everyone else folds, I call.

Flop:7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img](Pot Size: 16)

First two guys check to me, I pot it for 16, Villan moves all in, everyone folds to me, I call.

Thoughts?

Edit: Ill post results later.

-Thanks

Re: Good Draw?
 

The two most reasonable hands that I can see him doing this with are KKxx and AAxx suited in diamonds.

If the KK is not accompanied with diamond draw higher than yours, you are a very slight favorite to win, Most likely scenario IMO
if he does have higher diamonds (which will be rare, but will occasionally happen) you are around 30-70, slightly -ev
if he has AAxx suited in diamonds, you have >33% chance to win the hamd
If he is a fool with a bare AA, you are a 2-1 favorite.

Overall, calling his all in is the clear +EV decision over folding. unless you could 100% put him on KK with higher diamonds, which you cannot. You made the right call.

Re: Good Draw?
 

Yep, easy call.

Re: Good Draw?
 

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Yep, easy call.

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Re: Good Draw?
 

I'm an Omaha beginner, BUT,

Even tho it's an easy call, is my thought process too passive to assume that we do NOT want the diamond to fall? as we are probably behind a stronger flush?

Re: Good Draw?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm an Omaha beginner, BUT,

Even tho it's an easy call, is my thought process too passive to assume that we do NOT want the diamond to fall? as we are probably behind a stronger flush?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you have to assume your flush draw is good, otherwise you are reduced to 10 outs, and not enough to get all your money in.

Re: Good Draw?
 

Great Reply, Thanks.

Well he had K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

He actually had smaller diamonds and a set of Kings I ended up losing the hand. I was just wondering if it was a good shove considering he could have AA with nut diamonds.

Re: Good Draw?
 

[ QUOTE ]
unless you could 100% put him on KK with higher diamonds, which you cannot.

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Vizzini: Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

Re: Good Draw?
 

I agree with the above comments about calling the allin.

What I am not sure I agree with is betting the pot on the flop before his all-in re-raise. With a decent pot and this type of board, I like to try to control the pots size depending on what I have as "nut" outs. Since I don't have the flush "nut" outs, i would check and call the flop bet with a wrap straight draw. The other thing that complicates it is there are 2 others that act after the villan and any of those guys could also have the nut flush draw and or wraps as well. Doubt if they would have checked a lower set on flop, but I've seen people do that too. If there were no flush draw, then I have good nut outs and would prob. bet the pot.

My motto is that if you are going to build a pot, build one that you will probably win if you hit. I'm not saying if the flush card comes you won't be good, but I've double through many folks that commit their stack on non-nut hands. Anyways, that's my .02.
G$

Re: Good Draw?
 

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What I am not sure I agree with is betting the pot on the flop before his all-in re-raise. With a decent pot and this type of board, I like to try to control the pots size depending on what I have as "nut" outs. Since I don't have the flush "nut" outs, i would check and call the flop bet with a wrap straight draw.

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I don't agee with this at all. The weaker your flush draw is, the more aggressive you have to play it. See Reuben & Ciaffone's chapter in PL+NL Poker.

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The other thing that complicates it is there are 2 others that act after the villan and any of those guys could also have the nut flush draw and or wraps as well.

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Exactly, these are the hands you want to fold with a big check-raise.