Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

I apologize up front for the excessive length of this post. I wrote this recently, and have been debating over whether or not to post it. You can skip the first two paragraphs if you like. They mostly give you a little bit of my background along with a little bit of work history/job options stuff.

First I should probably give you a little background about me. I have always been an overachiever. I'm a perfectionist. I try to challenge myself, but in doing so, I don't give myself enough of a break to just relax. In middle school, I started taking more advanced classes (mainly in math) and I finished my high school's math curriculum freshman year. I went to a different school during my junior year, where I took much more advanced courses in math and science. I had spent a lot of my time studying and doing homework before that, but that year was way more than I cared to work, so I went back to my home high school to take things easy and enjoy my senior year. During that year, I took several college courses. I ended up graduating high school with 46 hours of college credit.

The summer after graduation, I had a wreck, which forced me to miss a semester of college. Since then, I've been at OU studying mechanical engineering. I've always been interested in building things, designing things, and understanding how things work. I've had an internship the past two summers, so I've seen how their engineers work and what they do during the course of a normal work week. I didn't like what I saw. I don't want to work 50-60 hrs/wk fixing broken equipment. I could do it, and I could make decent money at it, but it doesn't interest me much. Ultimately, I think I would like to work for NASA or some sort of aerospace company. I can't say for sure though, since I don't know enough about exactly what it would be like working there. Even so, I am pretty sure I would enjoy working there. I am very interested in space and the related technology. In fact, I'd probably be willing to work there for very low pay as long as it covered my expenses. I would probably stand a much better chance getting a job there if I had a master's degree, but I haven't really looked into it enough to know for sure. I am somewhat interested in getting a master's just for the sake of learning, but I haven't done much about it. I will graduate from OU in May 2006, but I don't have any real plans for getting a job (I should be looking now) or going to grad school (should have already made plans). I'm looking into a couple of options with the Air Force (civilian) or the Navy (officer), but I'm not sure that's what I want to do. I figured the AF deal would probably be a good stepping stone to working with NASA eventually.

Right now, I'm at a point where I just really don't know for sure what I want to do with my life. That brings me to poker. I don't have any delusions of playing poker long term, but I think it might be best for me after I graduate. I am seriously considering taking a semester or two off of school to play poker, travel, and enjoy life for a little while. After that, unless I am making lots and lots of money playing poker, I think I want to go to grad school. I just feel like I need a break. Aside from my semester that I spent laid up in front of the TV unable to move without hurting my arm (after my wreck), I haven't had any significant amount of time to relax and enjoy life since middle school. I think part of my problem is that I try too hard at most everything I do. I don't really allow myself to half-ass anything. In a way, I think that keeping this "semester long break" or "year long break" frame of mind will allow me to give pro poker a shot without any substantial strings attached.

I've read Ed's "Going Pro" articles. I think I fit his criteria well:

[ QUOTE ]
1. You have no dependants. You have no children, parents, significant others, or otherwise whose lives will be adversely affected if you end up broke. I’m not saying that going pro is impossible if you do have dependants, but my advice in these articles is inappropriate for someone who supports others.

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Check.

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2. You have a Plan B. If you do go broke, do you have an alternate plan? Can you easily pick back up where you left off with your old job? These articles are for you only if leaving your job will not set you back significantly should you fail as a pro.

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I have no job now. I don't think it would be significantly more difficult to get a job in the future than it would be immediately after graduation, but I'm not sure about this. Also, as I said, I would like to go to grad school anyway, I think.

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3. You are healthy with no chronic problems or risk factors. Jobs usually provide health insurance, and playing poker does not. While you should buy health insurance on your own as a professional, your insurance probably won’t be as good or economical as what you would get with work. Don’t play games with your health.

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I am young and in good health. If I need routine health care, I believe I can get it at a relatively low price because I am Chickasaw, but I need to look into this. I used to be quite a bit overweight, and I still am to some extent, but I have changed my eating and exercise habits and lost quite a bit of weight. This should have positive effects on my health as well.

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4. You really want to play poker for a living. You want to play poker fulltime because you love the game and hope to spend more time playing. You aren’t looking for a quick or easy buck. You play poker for fun first and money second.

[/ QUOTE ]

I enjoy it a lot. I don't know if I enjoy it enough to play it for the rest of my life, but that isn't my goal.

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5. You already play fairly well. You don’t have to play particularly well to be a professional these days. This is one area where old material on going pro is obsolete. Three years ago, you had to be quite a good player to generate enough income to live on. Now, with online play and so many terrible players, you merely have to play decently to generate significant income. But you do have to be a winning player.

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I don't have enough hands at my current level to be able to say for sure what my win rate is, but I am confident that I am a winning player and that I play significantly better than my competition. One of my goals for the next semester is to more up a couple of levels, hopefully, and to put in more hands to confirm my ability.

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Specifically, I have in mind a young, single person with relatively few expenses. If you quit your job, you can find an equivalent after six months to a year of layoff with relatively little trouble. Your response to the idea going through every dime you have is, “Oh well, I guess I’ll just have to go get a job,” not, "That would be a disaster."

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That pretty much sums it up.

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I feel that long-term success as a poker pro requires strength in four areas:

1. Financial Planning
2. Self Discipline
3. Emotional Control
4. Playing Ability

The first three are truly crucial, and they are mostly what I will discuss in this series of articles. Nowadays, most failures can be attributed to deficiencies in the first three areas: A mediocre player who is otherwise completely solid will likely succeed.

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I've always been pretty tight with my money, and I am very confident in my money management ability. I have enough money right now that I could make it for a year without doing anything at all if I wanted to, so I won't be in bad shape if I lose my bankroll. I have no college loans to worry about. My parents paid for my car, but I will begin making the payments after I graduate. That will only take about 15 more payments at around $400. I have no other debt that to worry about. My conservative estimate is that I can get by comfortably on $2000/month, plus taxes and savings. I don't expect to have any problems making 50% more than that easily, which will help with my savings goals. If I do well enough, I'd like to go to Europe for a couple of months while I still can (read: while I don't have a job to worry about). I think that my self discipline and emotional control are good. Losing sucks, but I don't feel that I let it get to me. I don't expect the first three points to be any problem for me.

I don't have enough experience to know where I stand in terms of playing ability. All I know is that I am capable of winning up to the 3/6 level. I play 5/10 now, but I only have about 2500 hand so far, so I can't say for sure what I am capable of there. So far, I feel that I have a definite advantage over the opponents that I have played. I would like to play higher than that, and I am being more aggressive about moving up that I was in the past. I don't know the level of play at the higher limits, but I suspect that I can make it at least one or two levels higher before I hit a wall, and possibly more than that. Regardless, I think I can earn enough money playing the 3/6 to live on, even if I can't hack it at the higher levels.

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If you play well and plan well, you have a great chance to succeed. Never forget that.

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I am confident that I can succeed at playing professionally for at least a year, which will probably be my goal if I decide to go through with it, but I am still not sure that it's what I am going to do. What I am really looking for is a discussion of why I should or should not give it a shot. What effect will this have on my life as an engineer, if I do in fact decide to get a "real" job afterwards? What about grad school? What are the cons of being a professional? (I know most of the pros of it.)

How should I approach my parents about it? They already know that I play a lot and that I'm fairly successful at it. Of course, they were skeptical when I first started, but they've begun to accept the fact that maybe I actually can make money at this. I think that they would be supportive, but I think that they would be very concerned at the same time. I talk to my mom regularly, and I tell her how I'm doing. I've been making good money over the last couple of weeks. Everytime I talk to her, it seems like I'm up another few hundred bucks. She jokingly asked "What are you going to school for again?" last time I talked to her, but I'm not sure how she'd take it if I just said, "You know, you're right." If I decide to go through with this, when should I tell them? I'm thinking it might be best if I waited until I have more hands in so that I can show them more data (graphs, etc.) to support the decision. Also, if you know of any other great threads or articles besides Ed's, please let me know. I would also like suggestions on books to read regarding playing professionally. I believe that Gambling Theory and Other Topics has some related content. Is this correct?

Thank you for reading this far. I would appreciate any thoughts and input you have on this.

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

I appreciate you sharing your story. Thank you.
I am a very cynical person...but I am going to be
very nice here. You fit the profile for the lifestyle
necessary to play. Good. I have a huge problem with
your experience.

If I was hiring an auto mechanic would I choose the
hard-working perfectionist who has really only
worked on his own car or the indifferent jerk who
has 2500 cars under his belt and does the job
well?

Pro is short for professional, yes it is a profession.
I like electronics, but I would never consider going
pro because I am not an expert at it and could not
compete with better more trained technicians.

You do not get performace reviews or yelled at
when you don't do well at poker...all you have
are your own tools to monitor and improve
your success.

With your small sample of playing and win rate
you are excited by the prospect of the card life.
I have done it. It was not exciting. You do not
have the tools yet to decide whether you are
BOTH a winning player and truly can handle
the pressure of HAVING to making a profit.
Yes, some days you will lose...and some weeks
AND some months!

The effort you would put into becoming a great
player could honestly translate into a fantastic
job with a better lifestyle. Rewards come to those
who work hard - no matter what field you are in.

You must ask yourself: What do I love the most?

Best of luck

-ZEN

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have enough hands at my current level to be able to say for sure what my win rate is, but I am confident that I am a winning player and that I play significantly better than my competition. One of my goals for the next semester is to more up a couple of levels, hopefully, and to put in more hands to confirm my ability.

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I think most people are going to come down on you for this. I've played for just over a year. I'm not a pro, and I doubt I would want poker as a career but I would love to be able to make some serious money off of this. I can beat the small stakes games but have been having trouble breaking into the bigger games. I have had months where I was making $60/hr and months where I broke even, and I'm still basically a break even player. I have a job so when I have a losing month I dont start freaking out, I can move down a level. But those kinds of pressures are what you are going to have to deal with.

I'm sure there are lots of talented poker players that cant go pro because they dont have the skill to handle the pressure. You may be able to beat individual games, but you may not be able to beat the psychological aspects of long term poker. Your lack of hands suggests that you have no idea whether or not you are capable of playing successfully long term. You really shouldnt be thinking of going pro until you have over 100K hands or have played for for 1-2 years. Most people that are going to respond to you are going to say something along these lines.

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

i say get ur masters and play cards

if ur good enough at cards u should not have to work to support urself and should leave u plenty of time to play

take the summer off and begin classes in the fall, take the minimum load to remain full time

or maybe get an internship for the summer, and play during off time

at this particular time in ur life u have the advantage of not having to put all ur eggs in 1 basket....

u can do both, probably for another year or two while u get ur masters

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

[ QUOTE ]
With your small sample of playing and win rate
you are excited by the prospect of the card life.

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More precisely, I am excited by the thought of taking some time off to enjoy myself, while making a little bit of money at the same time.

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I have done it. It was not exciting. You do not
have the tools yet to decide whether you are
BOTH a winning player and truly can handle
the pressure of HAVING to making a profit.
Yes, some days you will lose...and some weeks
AND some months!

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I agree that I don't yet have a large enough amount of experience to say for sure that I can beat my current limit long-term. However, I do know that I can beat the lower limits. I addition, I won't have the pressure of having to make a profit. I have enough savings that I just don't "need" the income. I don't expect it to be too much different from my current situation in that regard. Right now, I'm a student with no job, who happens to play poker. I am living off of my savings, primarily, but I am also making more than I am spending each month. If I don't, it isn't a problem. If I do, great. I expect to have a year's worth of living expenses when I graduate, which should result in relatively low financial pressures. If I have to move down in limits, it won't be a problem. As painful as it would be, I could make enough money to get by just by 4-tabling the .5/1, although obviously I don't want to do that. Also, as far as poker being "exciting," I don't expect it to be a lot of fun to put in hundreds of thousands of hands, but I expect it to be better than the alternative, at least for a while. Keep in mind that I really am only interested in doing this for a year or so. I also think it would be worth it for the freedom it would provide for vacations, etc.

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The effort you would put into becoming a great
player could honestly translate into a fantastic
job with a better lifestyle. Rewards come to those
who work hard - no matter what field you are in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand this, and I know that I will most likely make more money as an engineer, but I expect to work as an engineer anyway eventually. I am really just interested in taking a break to get a better idea of what I really want to do. I still think I would like to go to grad school, but I think I may have waited too late to start in the fall, since I haven't taken the GRE or submitted any apps. I'm not even sure exactly what I'd like to study if/when I do go to grad school.

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You must ask yourself: What do I love the most?

Best of luck

-ZEN

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Thanks for the advice and kind words.

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't have enough hands at my current level to be able to say for sure what my win rate is, but I am confident that I am a winning player and that I play significantly better than my competition. One of my goals for the next semester is to more up a couple of levels, hopefully, and to put in more hands to confirm my ability.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think most people are going to come down on you for this. I've played for just over a year. I'm not a pro, and I doubt I would want poker as a career but I would love to be able to make some serious money off of this. I can beat the small stakes games but have been having trouble breaking into the bigger games. I have had months where I was making $60/hr and months where I broke even, and I'm still basically a break even player. I have a job so when I have a losing month I dont start freaking out, I can move down a level. But those kinds of pressures are what you are going to have to deal with.

I'm sure there are lots of talented poker players that cant go pro because they dont have the skill to handle the pressure. You may be able to beat individual games, but you may not be able to beat the psychological aspects of long term poker. Your lack of hands suggests that you have no idea whether or not you are capable of playing successfully long term. You really shouldnt be thinking of going pro until you have over 100K hands or have played for for 1-2 years. Most people that are going to respond to you are going to say something along these lines.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your response. As I mentioned in my response to Zen, I don't expect to have too much in the way of financial pressure. If I really wanted to, I could take the year off and do nothing and still have enough money to get by, so even if I had to grind it out at the micros, I wouldn't be hurting for cash. Obviously I'd rather not do that, though.

Regarding the last point, I agree that I should have a great deal more hands. I currently only have around 35K total at all limits, which is obviously not enough to say anything conclusive about any particular limit. I've also only been playing seriously since the end of February, and I didn't play much over the summer since I was working full-time. I plan to put in a lot of hands next semester, so hopefully I will have a better idea of where I stand before I graduate. I understand that most people will find my limited experience to be a problem, but that's not what I'm most concerned about. As I said above, I could grind it out at the micros if I absolutely had to, but I don't expect to need to.

I guess my point is really that my ability to make a living playing poker isn't even my main deciding factor. I am really more interested in what effect this might have on my career. How much more difficult will it be to get a job a year after graduation if I have a solid resume minus that year? Is it more difficult to get accepted into grad school after taking a break? Is it more difficult to get a fellowship? These are really bigger considerations. Based on my 35K hand sample, I can say with 99.6% confidence that I am a winning player. I'm positive that I can at the very least not lose too much money playing poker, and that's all that I actually would need to do.

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

[ QUOTE ]
i say get ur masters and play cards

if ur good enough at cards u should not have to work to support urself and should leave u plenty of time to play

take the summer off and begin classes in the fall, take the minimum load to remain full time

or maybe get an internship for the summer, and play during off time

at this particular time in ur life u have the advantage of not having to put all ur eggs in 1 basket....

u can do both, probably for another year or two while u get ur masters

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if I play poker for a while, I still plan to get my masters degree, and I will probably play poker while I do that also. I could intern at the same place I have for the past two summers if I wanted to. The pay was pretty decent for a summer job. I think it was around $21/hr or something. I didn't have much off time to play this past summer. I had an hour long drive each way to work, so I was basically gone 11 hours/day. I spent time in the evenings visiting with my family, which basically left weekends. I spent some time playing on the weekends, but that's about it, and I don't imagine it would be much different this summer. I'm really not too interested in working there again, but I can if I need to. They've already invited me back for the next summer.

I considered starting grad school next fall. I don't even know if that's possible now since I haven't really prepared to do that. I haven't taken the GRE yet and I haven't applied anywhere. I don't even know where I want to go yet, or what exactly I want to study. That's part of what I want some time to consider. As I mentioned in the OP, I do have a couple of possibilities for jobs after graduation, but I don't know if it's really the direction I want to go. I think this really just boils down to me being unsure of what I want to do with my life, so I'm considering playing poker for a while until I can figure it out.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

All I can say it's tough, it's stessful, and it starts to suck really bad after about the fourth month. I went pro for about 6 months, made about 25K four tabling 3/6, then took a nine to five job for considerably less money. Although you may be skilled enough to earn a living at it, you have to be emotionally prepared for a roller coaster ride. Turned out I wasn't. Grinding out 30 - 40 hours a week only to break even for that week is tough, and believe me, it will happen to you if you play long enough. I may be making less money now, but at least I have peace of mind and can play poker as a hobby rather than a job.

Of course, theres other problems that go along with going pro:

1. Forget about getting a loan or credit card

2. No health insurance or 401K

3. You can't really enjoy the money you make since most of it belongs to your bankroll anyway

4. You become too obsessed

5. You get an uneasy feeling when somebody asks what you do for a living.

Anyway, good luck! By the way, if you need 2K/month to live on, you need to expect to win at least 4K to make up for the bad swings, unexpected expenditures, and the fact that no one will let you borrow money (except maybe your parents).

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

[ QUOTE ]
1. Forget about getting a loan or credit card

2. No health insurance or 401K

3. You can't really enjoy the money you make since most of it belongs to your bankroll anyway

4. You become too obsessed

5. You get an uneasy feeling when somebody asks what you do for a living.

[/ QUOTE ]

these are all really good points you should take into consideration. btw, which OU do you go to?

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for your response. As I mentioned in my response to Zen, I don't expect to have too much in the way of financial pressure. If I really wanted to, I could take the year off and do nothing and still have enough money to get by, so even if I had to grind it out at the micros, I wouldn't be hurting for cash. Obviously I'd rather not do that, though.


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Hey dude,
Good luck either way but looking at this paragraph I;m wondering about how much you;ve taken into account as far as living expenses go. Many people can make great livings playing online living off "mommy and daddy" but looking at your estimated income/savings plan in previous post you won;t be making a killing playing and paying for a place. Not that it's not livable, but compared to the potential you have according to your other posts, as far as academcins/career prospects go, your poker career would pale in comparison by far.

Good luck,
Matt

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

[ QUOTE ]
All I can say it's tough, it's stessful, and it starts to suck really bad after about the fourth month. I went pro for about 6 months, made about 25K four tabling 3/6, then took a nine to five job for considerably less money. Although you may be skilled enough to earn a living at it, you have to be emotionally prepared for a roller coaster ride. Turned out I wasn't. Grinding out 30 - 40 hours a week only to break even for that week is tough, and believe me, it will happen to you if you play long enough. I may be making less money now, but at least I have peace of mind and can play poker as a hobby rather than a job.

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Thanks for sharing your experiences.

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Of course, theres other problems that go along with going pro:

1. Forget about getting a loan or credit card

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This is not a long term proposition to me, and I won't be needing to borrow money any time soon. This should not be a factor for me within the next year or so.

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2. No health insurance or 401K

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I *think* I can get cheap health care if I need it, but I will definitely look into this further. I don't know too much about investing. Aside from employer matching, what are the benefits of a 401k vs. just investing through Edward Jones (who I currently use)? I have a Roth IRA, but I don't know a lot about investing in general.

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3. You can't really enjoy the money you make since most of it belongs to your bankroll anyway

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I have considered this, but I'm glad you mentioned it anyway.

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4. You become too obsessed

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This is something that could be somewhat problematic. I have a tendency to attack something with too much of my time and energy until I've either gotten as good as I can get at it, or until I find a new challenge. That's part of the reason that I don't imagine I'd like to play professionally for more than a year. I love playing, but I'm afraid that if I play 1500 hrs/year, it's only a matter of time before I would be looking for a new challenge. As a side effect, I think that might help me to do better in grad school at that point.

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5. You get an uneasy feeling when somebody asks what you do for a living.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously, I have no stance on this because I haven't "been there."

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Anyway, good luck! By the way, if you need 2K/month to live on, you need to expect to win at least 4K to make up for the bad swings, unexpected expenditures, and the fact that no one will let you borrow money (except maybe your parents).

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Thanks! That is the idea right now. I'm fairly certain that I can net $4-5k/month on average, but like I said in previous posts, if I don't, I'm not going to be in financial trouble. Hopefully I can get a better picture of my true winrate in the next few months. Thank you for your input!

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

[ QUOTE ]
which OU do you go to?

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University of Oklahoma

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

Nomad84, I'm wondering if there is a place to find a bigger picture of your avatar... Haha I love those retro posters and I haven't seen yours yet anywhere. Kudos to your avatar [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for your response. As I mentioned in my response to Zen, I don't expect to have too much in the way of financial pressure. If I really wanted to, I could take the year off and do nothing and still have enough money to get by, so even if I had to grind it out at the micros, I wouldn't be hurting for cash. Obviously I'd rather not do that, though.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hey dude,
Good luck either way but looking at this paragraph I;m wondering about how much you;ve taken into account as far as living expenses go. Many people can make great livings playing online living off "mommy and daddy" but looking at your estimated income/savings plan in previous post you won;t be making a killing playing and paying for a place. Not that it's not livable, but compared to the potential you have according to your other posts, as far as academcins/career prospects go, your poker career would pale in comparison by far.

Good luck,
Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

That is assuming that I am paying rent+bills+car, etc. I estimate that I will be spending approximately $2000/month after I graduate and don't plan to get any outside help with that (parents, etc.) Currently, I am spending about $1000/month since I don't have any car expenses other than gas right now, and the $2k estimate includes more money for bills, more money for entertainment, household items, etc. I am also getting some money from scholarships that helps with my living costs right now, effectively lowereing them to about $800/month. Including my bankroll, I have about $25k right now, which will allow me to get by for quite a while, although maybe not a full year after graduation like I had guessed before. I expect to add to that throughout the next few months though.

I'm not considering this as a way to get rich quick or anything like that. I don't expect to make a killing. I do think that I could make enough to cover my monthly nut relatively easily, but as I've said before, it wouldn't be critical.

Also, regarding career options, I still plan to pursue a career in engineering, even if I decide to stop to play poker for a while. A big part of the decision of what I do after I graduate will hinge on how much more difficult it is to enter the job market as someone who graduated a year ago vs. someone who just graduated, and also how much more difficult it would be to get into a good grad school under the same circumstances. Unfortunately, I don't know what the differences are or where to learn about it.

Thanks for the input/concern!

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

[ QUOTE ]
Nomad84, I'm wondering if there is a place to find a bigger picture of your avatar... Haha I love those retro posters and I haven't seen yours yet anywhere. Kudos to your avatar [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

I stole it here. I don't know if they make a poster of it or not. It doesn't even seem to be that common on a shirt. I got the shirt several months ago, but mine is dark blue, which looks better IMO.

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

[ QUOTE ]

5. You get an uneasy feeling when somebody asks what you do for a living.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is one of the things that are stopping me (the other thing being that I suck at poker and will always suck at it). Why can't I just give a fook about what everybody else thinks of me?

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

Hey Nomad,

One thing that I have noticed on these type of threads is the great caution the majority of respondents urge with regards to taking a year off. I think that this must be a cultural thing, (as most posters here are from the states).

In Australia it is unusual if somebody doesn't take a year off to travel to europe, or work in london, or do whatever. A lot of kids do it between school and college, others do it after finishing university. I've been doing it full time for over 15 years. And nobody that I know has done it with 25K sitting in the bank, much less the fact of having the opportunity to earn up to 4K a month from wherever you want in the world.

And this is the crux. All you need is a laptop and wireless roaming or a mobile with international roaming or something like that and you could travel and live around the world and still be making your earn. It boggles my mind. It boggles my mind that you're even hesitating about this.

I'd just do it, bro.

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

[ QUOTE ]
5. You get an uneasy feeling when somebody asks what you do for a living.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are successful, people are either going to respect you or be jealous of you. Both are fine with me.

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

You only live once man, I say go for it. If things don't turn out the way you expected, you can always do something else.

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

i would be more encouraged about your prospects if you were more competitive.

i think enjoying and being inspired by competition are the most important components of being able to put in the hours as a poker pro. you don't really seem to have that sort of personality.

i could be wrong tho.

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have done it. It was not exciting. You do not
have the tools yet to decide whether you are
BOTH a winning player and truly can handle
the pressure of HAVING to making a profit.
Yes, some days you will lose...and some weeks
AND some months!


[/ QUOTE ]

This is somewhat of an exaggeration. A pro poker player (I am assuming a wining player here, otherwise there is no point in going pro) will not have a loosing stretch as long as a month, let alone months if they are playing online multitabling, playing the low limits such as 3-6 or 5-10 like the OP wants to.

The sheer # of hands that you will play in a month along with rakeback deals that any pro should have will make a loosing month almost impossible.

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

[ QUOTE ]
The sheer # of hands that you will play in a month along with rakeback deals that any pro should have will make a loosing month almost impossible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that it should be unlikely, but nothing is out of the question entirely. As such, I would obviously need to be financially and emotionally prepared for that possibility. BTW, I have seen graphs posted here from some well known posters that contain hundreds of thousands of hands of data, but have break-even stretches of 50k+ hands. Of course, break-even is still profitable with rakeback, but putting in a ton of hands doesn't necessarily guarantee profit for the month even for a winning player. Obviously you know that, but I'm just saying that I appreciate his pointing out some things to be prepared for. Rare events still happen if you play long enough, and sometimes if you don't play too long at all.

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

Go for it. I'm about 6 months into your exact plan and I'm very pleased. I graduated in the spring pre-med and delayed applying to graduate schools. I play poker as my only income and wasn't planning on doing it long term. I just got back from traveling around Europe in November. I will be applying to med schools here in the next couple months.

I was very unsure of my plans when I originally decided to do it when I graduated. Now I am very happy that I went with it, I think you'll always regret not taking a chance and trying something you love if you don't do it now. You will probably never have another opportunity to pursue this so definitely go for it.

As far as what to tell your parents, you could start by showing them your original post.

Best of luck,
JKratzer

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

hey Nomad

I am a poker pro at the moment but do not plan to do it forever. Like you, I am taking some time out, and doing something that I enjoy doing (on the whole), while saving money and deciding what to do next.

While not wishing to be negative for the sake of it: what concerns me about your post is that you have only played 35000 hands.

I play NL and have been a winning player since I started. HOWEVER I did go through a four month period where I made nowhere enough to live on (say $2000). This was after maybe 6 months of consistent winning, and has been followed by another 6 months of consistent winning.

Bear in mind that it can be quite stressful, especially if you drop a couple of buy-ins. (Easily done!)

But on the other hand I love being my own boss, and my winrate is much better because I am not playing while tired after a day's work.

Anyway PM me if you have any questions as I don't check this forum very often.

gl
Patrick

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

Most Americans that have career ambitions are uptight and anally repressed. I suspect if he was philosphy major or a major in a field that didn't have great job prospects he would have a different attitude. Engineering is the ultimate anally repressed field out there........ [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

[ QUOTE ]
You do not get performace reviews or yelled at
when you don't do well at poker..

[/ QUOTE ]

Side query, am I the only one who yells at myself and talks nasty sht to myself in my book-keeping when I play poorly?

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm about 6 months into your exact plan and I'm very pleased.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks very much for your reply. I'd be interested to hear more about how much you play, what games you play, and your Europe trip, if you don't mind sharing.

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

[ QUOTE ]

hey Nomad

I am a poker pro at the moment but do not plan to do it forever. Like you, I am taking some time out, and doing something that I enjoy doing (on the whole), while saving money and deciding what to do next.

While not wishing to be negative for the sake of it: what concerns me about your post is that you have only played 35000 hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I plan to put in a lot of hands between now and graduation. So far, I've played about 10k this month, and I'll probably shoot for another 10k before the month is over. I'm doing this primarily because I need more experience, but also because I need to know how well I can do at playing a lot of hands each month.

[ QUOTE ]
I play NL and have been a winning player since I started. HOWEVER I did go through a four month period where I made nowhere enough to live on (say $2000). This was after maybe 6 months of consistent winning, and has been followed by another 6 months of consistent winning.

Bear in mind that it can be quite stressful, especially if you drop a couple of buy-ins. (Easily done!)

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't expect this to get too stressful since I will be overbankrolled and I will also have plenty of additional savings. Downswings are somewhat stressful on their own, but I don't think that I'll feel financial pressure on top of that.

[ QUOTE ]
But on the other hand I love being my own boss, and my winrate is much better because I am not playing while tired after a day's work.

Anyway PM me if you have any questions as I don't check this forum very often.

gl
Patrick

[/ QUOTE ]

I may PM you later on down the road if I decide to do this. Thanks for your comments.

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

[ QUOTE ]
Engineering is the ultimate anally repressed field out there........ [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

Didn't read the whole post (or thread).


But it really is pretty much up to you obviously.

Don't be too confident in your ability to beat the games until you have actually done it...but if the money isn't too hugely important to you then do what you like.


I have disagreed with others regarding the stress though and I still do.
Even in losing-skids I find online-poker to be significantly less stressful over almost any other job I've had before.
Having to get up at 7am and work for uptight morons REALLY sucks.

I feel like I have virtually total freedom and flexibility. I was able to take several trips this year...far more than I would have been able to from a 'regular' job.
It was either ofr a tournament...or just a trip where I brought my 'job' (laptop) with me.

March - Party cruise to Mexico (and placed in the money)
May - To Florida and New Orleans (visit parents and go to Jazz-festival respectively).
July - Vegas for WSOP
August - Florida to visit family
October - Washington DC and West Virginia (sight-seeing and to visit my Grandma respectively)
November - Florida again



when I'm not out and about travelling I get to work whenever I want and do it while watching the ball-game on TV or at some coffee-WiFi place on a patio drinking an iced-latte.


Yup...sometimes I lose...sometimes I win. I am currently going through my worst losing streak ever right now and am pretty certain it is not just variance but that I have somehow developed enough bad habits that I am (or at least 'was') no longer playing a winning game (kind of weird...but we each battle our own demons).

If you have the maturity to step down in levels when you are getting clobbered and not let the wins and losses get to you too much then I recommend it.

But obviously it's not for everyone as there are plenty of people (such as in this thread) who absolutely hate it after 6 months and go back to a regular job.
For some people the stress of making the rent is just too much to handle.
I keep ehough in living-expenses aside...and with the remainder (my 'poker' bankroll) I typically play at limits lower than necessary just so I don't sweat the ups and downs as much.

If/when you get clobbered (as I have) you can always just grind it out at low-stakes and rely on rake-back, bonuses, propping, whatever and that will be enough to get you by.


FWIW - I too did not have a significant sample-size when I quit my job and I was not convinced that I was a long-term winner. But, in my situation, I could always just get my former low-paying job back whenever I needed to.
frankly, I thought I was just taking a 3-month 'shot' to see how it went. I had been running pretty well and was making more from home then at work so I went for it...but fully expected to have to return to my job.
My 3 month 'shot' has lastabout 20 months now.


It's not the end-all-be-all.
If I had a zillion dollars I certainly wouldn't be spending all this time at home clicking buttons.
The game is fairly enjoyable...but not THAT much (thus it's sometimes hard to motivate myself to study). But as far as making a living is concerned it sure beats a LOT of alternatives for a lot of reasons.


Also - if you are a reasonably healthy individual it shouldn't be that expensive to get health-insurance.
I know people get benefits from their jobs...but I hardly think this is a complete reason for keeping a job you hate (as I know some people do).
you can just buy your own health-insurance and live a freer life.
(however, it's different if you have some pre-existing condition where you wouldn't be able to get cheap insurance if you left your current plan and I know a couple people who are kind of 'trapped' in their current work situation because of this)

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

[ QUOTE ]
Engineering is the ultimate anally repressed field out there........

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha so true, but its their schooling that makes them that way. Every engineering major I have ever dealt with is under some insane time crunch to get some crazy project done.

I enjoy rolling out of bed at 4pm being a film major lol...

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You do not get performace reviews or yelled at
when you don't do well at poker..

[/ QUOTE ]

Side query, am I the only one who yells at myself and talks nasty sht to myself in my book-keeping when I play poorly?

[/ QUOTE ]

nope! =)

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

Nomad, I read your post and all these replies...

My opinion in a nut shell would be to take note of all the points here because they're good advice. Then just do it. See if you can make a go of it.

Now for my explanation of why i think so...

As you stated, your in a position where you have no dependents, and you have some money to fall back on. This does not make up for your pure lack of experience. However, if you think of this as being an 'entry level' position... meaning you'll probably make just enough money to live and you'll have to put in extra hours to get ahead, then you may do just fine. No matter what our career path, most people start out in entry level positions. You'll gain experience so long as you're willing to put in hard hours and learn.

I don't disagree with the points made against going pro, it just seems that if you have the means and the desire, then why not try it out. Making any 'career change' can be risky. If you're going to do it, now seems to be the time.

Re: Is pro poker right for me? [LONG]
 

[ QUOTE ]
i say get ur masters and play cards

[/ QUOTE ]

Im guessing most people would laugh at this suggestion but it happens to be exactly what I did. I got a masters in Data Mining and Statistics and during my 1 year program (i did a 4+1 program staight out of undergrad at my univeristy) and I supported myself with poker. I am confident that coming out of undergrad I did not have the necessary abilities to succeed as a professional poker player, now I do just that. Additionally the masters degree gives me a little something extra to fall back on if need be (plus I dont plan on playing poker for ever).

-Brad