10 x BB All in or Fold
 

Hi all I have a query regarding all in or fold stratagy at 10X BB...

I was in a tourny yesterday (freeroll 1000 entrants) and we were down to the last 75 players (Top 50 Paid) Now I was sitting in 47th Place with T 15000 Blinds where at 750/1500 now at this stage it is suggested that if I'm going to play a hand I should be all in if I dont want to be all in I should fold (as Is my understanding)

I was UTG with pocket 9's so decided to push....folded round to big stack (T 35000) who called with AK and then folded to BB(short stack T 3500)who also called (pocket 9's also lmao)

Anyway to cut a long story short the Big stack caught an Ace on the turn and out I went....

Should this of been played differently or did I do the right thing ???

Or is there anytime you should deviate from the all in or fold tactic at 10x BB...

Your help would be much aprecihated <<<probably spelt wrong lol [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Thank You Tom [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: 10 x BB All in or Fold
 

a) use spellcheck
b) you need to understand a concept before you blindly follow it

read up on inflection points, etc. there's plenty of information in HoH and in the archives.

would you have posted this hand if you weren't called by AK (or better yet, didn't lose to AK)? if not, you're being too results-oriented and aren't really concerned about the play itself.

Re: 10 x BB All in or Fold
 

a) I didnt relise I needed a degree in English to post here...
b) Thats the whole point of the post... to check my understanding if it is wrong constructive critisim is required not some snidey remark.... Im sick or reading smart ass comments in this forum and have only been here a few weeks....

I have HOH Vol 1 and am reading and re reading that text at the moment b4 I buy volume 2...where I believe inflection points etc...are diccussed in more depth..

We are not all poker pros or experianced players on this forum but just because we're not doesnt mean we should be treated with disrespect because we may not be as clued up as the next man....I though forums were here for people to learn and gain knowledge from more experianced players,and seek help and advice to help improve our stratagy and poker play.

And finally I would of posted this because I wanted to learn alot more about the 10x BB fold or all in stratagy anyway I just thought that would be a good hand to demonstrate my understanding of the "rule"..... Im quite comfortable in my MTT play until the blinds get to large amounts.....where now I decided to find abit more out about the 10X BB "rule" which resulted in this post......

One last point...my old man used to say to me "If you aint got nothing nice to say...dont say nothing at all"....take that advice and in future in my opinion if you want to HELP people or post something CONSTRUCTIVE then do so....but be nice about it [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: 10 x BB All in or Fold
 

a) i wasn't aware that spelling required a degree now. i'm sorry, but i get the feeling you're 14 when i read things like "experianced", "critisim" and "relise". its not difficult to copy/paste into ms word and spell check if your spelling/grammar are that horrible. its so easy to check/fix nowadays and its still too much trouble to copy/paste, click a button, and then copy/paste again. people aren't going to feel compelled to respond to something so poorly constructed.

b) you didn't answer my original question:

[ QUOTE ]
would you have posted this hand if you weren't called by AK (or better yet, didn't lose to AK)? if not, you're being too results-oriented and aren't really concerned about the play itself.


[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 10 x BB All in or Fold
 

Im very sorry my spelling isnt up to your standards......

And Im 24....

And if you read my reply properly you would of seen that I wrote.....and yes I would of posted this anyway if I won the hand because I was intrested in improving my play where the blinds are large in an MTT and that I wanted to expand on the 10 X BB "rule" and I thought that this hand would be a good demostration of my understanding of the "rule" if wrong please help ...... just read the last paragragh or the last post again if you plan to reply and if your gonna be an ass again save your typing for something else please...Thank You [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: 10 x BB All in or Fold
 

pushing is ok. limping is okay too IMO

Re: 10 x BB All in or Fold
 

[ QUOTE ]
pushing is ok. limping is okay too IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

In some spots I think a standard raise is fine. UTG probably not so much, but if it were folded to me on the CO or button, with semi-aggressive players left to act I would raise 2.5x and call a push. I think this gets the most against players who would fold 22-55 to a push but may push over your raise or may resteal. In the OP situation, push is probably best, although again with aggressive players, maybe limp-raise is best.

Steve

Re: 10 x BB All in or Fold
 

The 10xBB Rule, like any other rule, can be bent in situations like this.

One line I've taken a liking to lately with this sort of hand is limping UTG or UTG+1, and seeing the action behind me -- if a player I read as loose raises, I'm pushing. If a player I read as tight raises, I can fold. If it limps around to the BB, I can try and play a bit of poker.

In this case, depending on your read on the guy with AK, you may have gone broke anyway. But it at least gives you more of a sense of control over the hand. This hand is a no brainer with less than 6xBB, and you can actually make another decision with 13xBB or more. It's that area in the middle there where it gets a bit confusing.

Re: 10 x BB All in or Fold
 

Thanks Guys this is the kind of replys you'd expect from a well established forum [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: 10 x BB All in or Fold
 

I'm not quite sure how to phrase this, and this may be a thread hijack so if so I apologize. One of my pet peeves is poker players accepting general 'rules' without understanding why the 'rule' exists and why it is the right play. I mean if you went to push/fold mode every time you stared down at <= 10BB you probably wouldn't do horribly, but at the same time if you know the hows and whys behind it all, you can make the proper adjustements and improve your game greatly. 10BB at the bubble is much different than 10BB at the beginning of hour 2 which is much different than 10BB at the final table which is much different than 10BB in a tournament where the avg stack is 8BB and the largest stack is 20BB.

People generally go into push/fold mode with 10BB because that's the point at which a raise pretty much pot commits you anyways and limping often just tosses away 10% or more of your stack. That being said, once you go into push/fold mode you need to take a look at your table situation and decide what kind of range you want to be pushing/folding with, as well as being flexible enough to toss certain hands in the right situation, as well as knowing if and when it may be time to deviate from your push/fold strategy.(AQo looks nice, but if you've got a couple of pushers/raisers in front of you, it may not be a good spot to gamble). Some things to take into account are if the site you're playing on has antes (as far as I know, party is the only one that doesn't, hence I play tighter with a shorter stack on party than on other sites since even though the blinds are high the antes aren't constantly whittling at my stack), how soon the blinds are raising (you can easily go from 10BB to 5BB as soon as the blinds raise, and that can change your situation a lot), how short the blinds are (short stacked blinds are more likely to call, depending on your holding that may be good or bad), as well as if both the SB/BB are posted (I know if someone busts when it's their turn to post the SB on party no one posts the SB and only the BB is posted, making the initial pot size smaller). It also makes a huge difference if you're the pusher or the caller. You can push with a wider range of hands than you can call with since you can win pots by pushing without a showdown while calling you must end up with the best hand.

All of these factors can change things a little bit. I think for the particular hand you gave, 99 is too good of a starting hand to give up at this stage and it's a pretty easy push for me. I'm also happy when AK calls for a coin flip (although not so much the 99). In the long run though I believe you would be better served learning the *WHY* behind this strategy, rather than just switching to all in/fold mode automatically when your stack gets to a certain point. In online tournaments the blinds escalate so fast you find yourself with <= 10BB an awful lot, and skillful play with a short stack can be the difference between final tabling and busting out on the bubble.

-Rizen