AK hand with 4 flush
 

New to the table so no reads. I'm pretty sure betting this river is wrong after getting called on the turn, but I wasn't sure what to do if villain bet. So check/fold or check/call? Also any other comments welcome.

Party Poker 20.00/40.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(5 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, CO calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, CO calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls.

River: (8.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks.

Re: AK hand with 4 flush
 

there aren't many players in this game who don't raise the turn with a big spade, so i don't think you need to be afraid of getting raised on the river. obviously there are a lot of reasons not to bet (he could have A8 and be beating you, even), but the reasons are fewer than you think.

i would go ahead and bet because if you check and he bets, you have to call him. he didn't give off spade vibes on the turn, so i can't give him credit for one on the river.

i realize because this hand was posted that he almost certainly has a 7 of spades or something, but there are so many unposted hands like this where the guy has AT no spade and you're good. if he has AT no spade he's calling the turn and just praying you check the river so he can. also a bet on the river may get him to fold a very small spade, you never know.

you need to consider the strength you are giving off yourself when you decide to river bet. if you plan to check-call, i think bet(-fold) is better.

(obviously this line is totally screwed when playing against the strong opponent who not only waits till the river to raise his big spade, but is also capable of bluff raising the river when the big blind keeps firing in such a suspicious manner.)

Re: AK hand with 4 flush
 

I think I bet this river and fold to a raise. He calls the river bet with a weaker ace over 50% of the time, and checks through because he does not want to be CR'ed on the river, so its nice to pick up that bet. Without a read, it may be best just to check-call and get this to showdown, but that may be giving up too much.

-mike

*No way I check-fold this river

Re: AK hand with 4 flush
 

[ QUOTE ]
there aren't many players in this game who don't raise the turn with a big spade

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I think most half-decent players will slowplay a big spade here. Why would I want to give someone an easy fold?

FWIW, I really don't know whats right on the river. I'm not folding, I think you have the odds that your opponent has a weaker ace with no spade. I think bet-fold &gt; check-call &gt; bet-call &gt; check-fold.

Re: AK hand with 4 flush
 

nice post dank,

Right after I posted this I realized that I think this is going to be a value bet a lot so a bet/fold is probably best.

My thinking at the time was that a hand worse than two pair was going to have a hard time calling down here given the action up to that point on the turn. The problem with this though is that since the guy is an unknown I can't be certain he is really think critically about what hands I could be holding and thus we *will* have worse hands here enough to value bet.

Also, I agree with stigmata that a big spade doesn't necessarily raise this turn.