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-   -   flop a set, how to extract? (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=389880)

schwza 12-02-2005 12:04 PM

flop a set, how to extract?
 
don't remember reads. empire $100.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter

SB (t905)
BB (t978)
UTG (t631)
UTG+1 (t1465)
MP1 (t665)
Hero (t1590)
MP3 (t400)
CO (t1312)
Button (t955)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t30, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls t30, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (t105) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets t30</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t100</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t275</font>, BB folds, UTG+1 calls t175.

Turn: (t685) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t400</font>,

12-02-2005 12:10 PM

Re: flop a set, how to extract?
 
I check behind on the turn and hope to get a bet from UTG+1 on the river

12-02-2005 12:11 PM

Re: flop a set, how to extract?
 

fine till the turn where i would consider a smaller bet of 1/2 of the pot. if he calls to complete A flush draw then he made a mistake coz the odds for that are 4:1.
In summary I bet enough to deny draws when oppenents havent seemed to of hit much.

Your line was fine but you cant do much when your opponent has nothing.

12-02-2005 12:14 PM

Re: flop a set, how to extract?
 
I disagree with whatsgoods advice. checking the turn can hurt, you could help him complete his flush and a possible straight is out there ( if he has to face cardsany T,K,J could complete his hand).

12-02-2005 12:33 PM

Re: flop a set, how to extract?
 
I like betting on the turn as well to protect your hand and make him pay where he is not getting the odds to call. You don't want him to complete something that beats your set for cheap.

Sam T. 12-02-2005 12:37 PM

Re: flop a set, how to extract?
 
I probably think too much about protection rather than extraction, so I would probably raise more on the flop. UTG+1 pretty much HAS to call if he's gotten even a whiff of the flop, and limping hands like JT or 78, especially if there are a couple of clubs out there, are real possibilities.

Turn bet is goot.

12-02-2005 12:48 PM

Re: flop a set, how to extract?
 
I raise more on the flop because there's a bettor and a raiser before me and there are draws out. t300-400.

schwza 12-02-2005 12:51 PM

Re: flop a set, how to extract?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I raise more on the flop because there's a bettor and a raiser before me and there are draws out. t300-400.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, when i looked at the hh and looked at the bet to utg+1 and the size of the pot and realized i made a pretty small raise.

at the time, i wanted to raise small to keep marginal Q's around. i figured that draws were not getting that good odds because i kill one flush card (makes my fh) and i'll have redraws anyway. not sure if this (i can raise smaller b/c i have a set) is good reasoning though.

12-02-2005 12:57 PM

Re: flop a set, how to extract?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I raise more on the flop because there's a bettor and a raiser before me and there are draws out. t300-400.

[/ QUOTE ]

not sure if this (i can raise smaller b/c i have a set) is good reasoning though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, against good players raising different amounts with different strength hands is a disaster for obvious reasons; I don't know if the players you're playing against notice this or not. Otherwise, I could see a pretty strong argument for raising more with a set because 1) you've got a better hand and want the pot bigger, 2) you can't fold to any turn card, so your opponents are getting great implied odds that you need to cut down on, and 3) making draws fold but weaker made hands (with few/no outs) call is really fun.

Toro 12-02-2005 02:08 PM

Re: flop a set, how to extract?
 
The Ace on the turn probably kills your action but I bet anyways to not let your opponent back into a hand for free (flush or straight) that can beat you.


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