I gotta fold this river, right?
 

20-40 Party.

Game is five-handed, utterly psychotic both preflop and postflop, this hand being a rare exception. All players are playing much too aggressively and flying around with weak and at times absurd holdings.

Anyways, 5-handed. UTG, the only reasonable player in the game, folds. CO limps, button limps, SB limps, I check my option with 88.

Flop: J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I check the flop intending to checkraise or check-threebet if the SB raises, which is close to automatic. Amazingly, the flop is checked around.

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I check the turn intending to checkraise. CO bets, others fold, I raise, CO calls.

River: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

So I have to checkfold here, right?

-Michael

Re: I gotta fold this river, right?
 

I'd probably stick an extra bet in pre-flop, first because I have the best hand, second because I want to build the pot. Much easier to keep all those bottom pair, gutshot straight, 3-to-a-flush hands in all the way to the river when you flop your set if the pot is twice as large to begin with.

The river : Stuff like 79, KQ, QT, KT, 43, K4 seems possible if the game is as aggressive and loose as you describe. Maybe worth a call on the end if he bets, but close.

Re: I gotta fold this river, right?
 

"The river : Stuff like 79, KQ, QT, KT, 43, K4 seems possible if the game is as aggressive and loose as you describe."

Or 3-3 or 2-2. I'd probably give it a crying call.

Re: I gotta fold this river, right?
 

check call that river. maybe he'll bluff with some trash.
ignore his call on the turn, that call there is autocall for fish with Q6 and stuff.

btw im not saying youll win a lot of the time, but i think youll win just enough to make it correct.

Re: I gotta fold this river, right?
 

I don't think that card is strong enough to make you go from check/raising the turn to check/folding the river.

Check/call the turn if you think you might have the best hand and wanted to get to showdown.

Re: I gotta fold this river, right?
 

id check/call if hes really bad, its not like you are giving up toooo much. he might have KT and bet the river, he is bad.
i also think this is a veryveryvery easy raise preflop. seriously. raise.

Re: I gotta fold this river, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i also think this is a veryveryvery easy raise preflop. seriously. raise.


[/ QUOTE ]

Re: I gotta fold this river, right?
 

Prety easy check/call, I think. And yes, you're usually losing here. But isn't part of the point - why are you check raising the turn if you are going to check/fold the river.

Also, at this kind of table, I'd def. like a PFR. You give yourself bluff outs.

Re: I gotta fold this river, right?
 

River is close, but as others noted the glaring error is preflop. RAISE IT UP! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: I gotta fold this river, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
River is close, but as others noted the glaring error is preflop. RAISE IT UP! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Call the river for the reasons mike l. states. But just calling BTF is not an error given you usually end up with four opponets completely out of position with a middle pair.

Just an old man's opinion.

~ Rick

Re: I gotta fold this river, right?
 

IMO, 88 definitly has an equity edge against ranmdom hands that don't open raise 5 handed.

Re: I gotta fold this river, right?
 

it sure does if you ran all the hands hot and cold to the river without any further action.

Re: I gotta fold this river, right?
 

First, PF of all the additional money put in PF, the plurality of it comes to you. Second, by raising, you take the aggression and give yourself some FE above and beyond simply betting the flop. Third, you may knock out the Sb?

Re: I gotta fold this river, right?
 

this has got to be the biggest case of FPS ever.

raise pf

bet out the flop

bet the turn after the flop is checked though

check the river inducing a bluff

Re: I gotta fold this river, right?
 

it's tough, it seems like everything got there. 67 didn't get there though. 66 and 77 didn't get there, niether did a pair of fours. I almost like betting and fold to a rasie. But check-call seems good too.

You can fold this most the time, but waht you said about how this game is going nutty makes it tough to fold I think. If you check call and lose, you have probably made worse calls.

Re: I gotta fold this river, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
this has got to be the biggest case of FPS ever.

raise pf

bet out the flop

bet the turn after the flop is checked though

check the river inducing a bluff

[/ QUOTE ]


i tried to read your reply but i cant because your avatar is so hot [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: I gotta fold this river, right?
 

"this has got to be the biggest case of FPS ever."

I don't understand this. I'm not even going to tackle the preflop raise, but going for a checkraise on the flop seems like a fine option to me. I might win the pot more if I lead, but the pot is small and it's okay not to.

On the turn my play is stronger than leading. The pot is still small, and somebody always sticks his neck out and bets here when it is virtually assured he has nothing.

-Michael

Re: I gotta fold this river, right?
 

i suddenly realized how much i have forgotton about poker

i'm in a bad place right now, sorry

Re: I gotta fold this river, right?
 

knock out the sB when he's getting 7 to 1. Probably not.

Re: I gotta fold this river, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
IMO, 88 definitly has an equity edge against ranmdom hands that don't open raise 5 handed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I'd easily make this raise if I was going all in. But three (miscounted first time) opponents (perhaps two, if the small blind makes the unlikely fold getting the same pot odds) is exactly the wrong number of opponets for a middle pair. The flop figures to have one to two overcards, you rarely hit a set, and three opponents is too many to bully out of position.

That said, raising is only a small mistake. But calling is not a "glaring error" [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

~ Rick

Re: I gotta fold this river, right?
 

Fair enough, "glaring error" is not appropriate. I still think it's a raise. I understand the hand doesn't play beatifully multiway, but it plays well enough to raise here.