Boring and standard?
 

Party 1/2 6-max. I limp UTG w/55 and $200 behind, 1 other limp, SB completes, BB (covers) makes it $12 to go and I'm the only caller.

Flop: J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($28)

BB bets $22, I make it $80, he pushes, I call

Re: Boring and standard?
 

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Boring and standard?

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Quite.

Re: Boring and standard?
 

Yes. Standard at least. If he has JJ or AKs/AQs/other screwball diamonds, that's just inevitable. Hit some running diamonds to split if he has JJ and you'll be fine.

Re: Boring and standard?
 

This happened to me the other day with a set of 5's on a monotone board of [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]'s, standard I thought.

The reason I posted
 

I don't have a lot of time to go through the math here as I have a meeting in a couple minutes but I'm not sure this SHOULD be standard in this game. I believe waiting for the turn to make a move is a good plan for a few reasons:

If the turn is not a fourth flush card,

-- The made nut flush isn't going anywhere anyway (and probably will still give action if the board pairs and he is drawing dead)
-- An overpair with a big flush card or a pair+nut flush draw is also probably not going anywhere
-- A set is probably not going anywhere


If a 4th flush card comes, you will often be given a free card by the nut flush (as he'll go for a check/raise) or will face a smallish bet from a non-nut flush that fears you have the nuts.


Downsides to waiting:
-- an overpair or TPTK-type hand without a flush card almost certainly will not give you any action (often, they won't give you any action if you raise the flop, either, though)
-- a smaller set will get away cheaply with a fourth flush card on the board when he would likely have put it all in on the flop
-- a decent player will be able to lay down the nut draw with a pair on the turn if you make a large bet

The last doesn't apply to a lot of players in this game so I think it can be discounted.

Thoughts?

Re: Boring and standard?
 

Obviously the call of his push is standard because once the 80 is in there you are getting odds to fill up.

Personally I probably call the flop and raise a non-diamond turn. People are a lot more brave with 2 to come than they are with 1 to come. I'd also do my best to get the board to pair. Consider offering a small sacrifice...a live chicken feels about right.

Re: Boring and standard?
 

I've never played quite as high as nl 200 nor do i have much experience at 6-max but how would he play black aces there? If he has you on any kind of drawing hand will these players or this particular player charge the max?

Re: Boring and standard?
 

I really like a flop call, actually. Against bad players, sure I'll raise it up because they will get all-in here with much less. But against good, solid players, I like calling because it disguises your hand and allows you to play more correctly against them on later streets while making them play less correctly against you. Raising the flop against a solid player allows them to play perfectly against you.

Re: Boring and standard?
 

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I really like a flop call, actually. Against bad players, sure I'll raise it up because they will get all-in here with much less. But against good, solid players, I like calling because it disguises your hand and allows you to play more correctly against them on later streets while making them play less correctly against you. Raising the flop against a solid player allows them to play perfectly against you.

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I could go either way... what i like about raising is that even solid players overplay their overpair with flush card. Overpairs without flushcard shut down on four either way, so you probably won't get anything more out of them, from a solid player at least.

I don't think you can too wrong on this flop tho, other than minraising and folding everything is pretty much ok.

Re: Boring and standard?
 

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I really like a flop call, actually. Against bad players, sure I'll raise it up because they will get all-in here with much less. But against good, solid players, I like calling because it disguises your hand and allows you to play more correctly against them on later streets while making them play less correctly against you. Raising the flop against a solid player allows them to play perfectly against you.

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I could go either way... what i like about raising is that even solid players overplay their overpair with flush card. Overpairs without flushcard shut down on four either way, so you probably won't get anything more out of them, from a solid player at least.

I don't think you can too wrong on this flop tho, other than minraising and folding everything is pretty much ok.

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Do you check/fold black aces on a blank turn? I don't.