20/40 Getting aggressive
 

I know a lot of you wont like this hand right off the bat because you're weak-tight. You only like to play the nuts, and thats cool. I like playing split aces and rolled on third as well. Some of you like beermoney even like to play with other guys nuts, and thats....uhhhh.....kinda sick. But lets try to take our skirts off for a minute here before you guys let me have it and label me as a LAG this hand. Villain just joined the table a few orbits ago and isnt anyone I've ever played with or seen in this game.

7 Card Stud High ($20/$40), Ante $2, Bring-In $5 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.40 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in

4th Street - (0.90 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises

5th Street - (2.45 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

fold third. I know you're the bring in, but this hand is just going to get you in trouble, especially with the way you play the later streets, as evidenced by your fourth and fifth street play. In this tight ante structure, I won't make it past fourth unless I have quads. You have to learn how to adapt to the structure of the game.

Beer [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

PS, I'm glad you were able to witness a classic hit and run.

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

I dunno man… and there’s no way you can know either. I mean, you don’t know him so you can’t put him on a range. The limp does seem fishy though, so I suppose it’s okay.
Personally, I’d rather wait till I have a read before I get involved with so little money in the pot.

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I’d rather wait till I have a read before I get involved with so little money in the pot.



[/ QUOTE ]

I know what you're saying man, but thats just my point. I see so many players here always wanting to wait for a better read or a better spot. Isnt it all relative though? I mean, If I am right here and I'm putting money in with the best hand, then it dosent really matter whats in the pot. I actually think my desire to get into risky situations that most would want to "wait for a better spot" is what makes me more money than players that play tighter. Stud is a game of pushing small percentages. It not only supplies me with a better image helping my good hands get paid off and appearing to be an action player. But I think I now have played enough stud through the years to handle situations where I've put myself in jeopardy very well. This not only goes for plays like this, but playing additional hands on third as well, using my superior skills to "catch up" on the later rounds. Like the gospel (7csfap's) says "if you can find a few extra hands per session and average a few bucks on each...". I think several players (Roland you're especially one of the ones I have in mind) could play more hands and show a much larger profit than they do now. Perhaps this is one of those hands.

Mike Emery

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

With all due respect, what's the point here? You started off your post by defending what you knew the response would be. You know it's -EV, at least by the book. If you feel like for you it's +EV because you get a "better image" or you know how to "handle situations where I've put myself in jeopardy" then go for it.

If you're going to play this way, then go for it. But again, why are you posting this hand? And when you get the inevitable response, why are you so defensive?

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

4 handed, I don't hate it at all. I think you are most likely ahead unless he is a tricky player. you really aren't losing to many hands unless he limped with aces or a concealed pair. the only thing I'm afraid of is a third four (which I don't think he had).

I would say most likely he limped with ace high maybe akx or aj10 or something... and bet fourth as a "delayed steal"
on fifth when he pairs, I give him credit for a pair of fours and that's about it, I think it is just another attempt to continue his steal since he caught a little something. I think your fives are most likely ahead, but I tend to get a little aggressive short-handed, so perhaps take it for what it's worth.

out of curiosity, what do you do if he three bets fifth street? what about if he leads out sixth?

-lane

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

[ QUOTE ]
With all due respect, what's the point here? You started off your post by defending what you knew the response would be. You know it's -EV, at least by the book. If you feel like for you it's +EV because you get a "better image" or you know how to "handle situations where I've put myself in jeopardy" then go for it.

If you're going to play this way, then go for it. But again, why are you posting this hand? And when you get the inevitable response, why are you so defensive?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

[ QUOTE ]
You know it's -EV, at least by the book.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think he's saying that at all.. I think he's saying he thinks his 5's are slightly ahead, and he's not afraid to push that edge. If his opponent folds somewhere along the line that's great.

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

Calm down uwda. I’m sure Mike didn’t post this hand to boast about his awesome poker skills but because he thought it ws interesting and he played it correctly.



[ QUOTE ]
Isnt it all relative though? I mean, If I am right here and I'm putting money in with the best hand, then it dosent really matter whats in the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]


Correct. Here’s my problem though:
You belive you have a small edge - lets say you figure you’re a 55-45 favorite on average. The thing is you have to be real sure about this in this ante structure. If this game had a $3 ante things would be different… even if you messed up and are actually a 55-45 dog, you’d still win that extra $1.80. Or if this had been 6 handed instead of 4-handed. As it is though, the risk-reward ratio just sucks in that game.
I know you know this stuff, but what else can I say.


[ QUOTE ]
I think several players (Roland you're especially one of the ones I have in mind) could play more hands and show a much larger profit than they do now.


[/ QUOTE ]


Well, I don’t know. You must be over-estimating my skills because every time I try to loosen up I crash and burn.
I’ve tried $3/$6 even, just to see if I would do better playing more hands in looser structure. I have a lot of problems there though - I think because most marginal hands need to get heads-up to show a profit, but those guys just never fold. 3Q3 isn’t all that profitable 5-way…

Probably I just suck. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

Here's my problem with this specific hand:

I'm fine with the raise on fourth -- you may have the best hand, you may not. I often play split aces by limping in a four way game, but I also would play hands like (JQ)A, three flush, (22)A. But when he calls on fourth and makes an open pair on fifth and bets...the gig's up. Small pots in short games, got to be able to do that old raise/fold thing. Cause if he does have aces up, or even sixes up, you in trouble.

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

I agree that the guys who are really killing the mid-limit stud games are playing more hands than I do. To that end, I think it's necessary to begin talking about profitable situations for pushing hands we wouldn't normally push.

uwda's coming out hard because the original post was punkish (by design, i think). My only problem is that in this specific hand, the move comes without a read on opponent. I would have liked it more if you said "i pushed this hard because of X", the aggression appears almost random.

- Mac

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

At 2/4, when I do not have a read on a player, I assume loose/passive. This is why I fold 5th.
However, I also know that the 5th st raise will sometimes work right there and then or on later streets and I guess it would be that much more effective at higher stakes.

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

4th st is fine, but you're looking at big trouble once he pairs 5th. Maybe it's just me, but when he leads out, it isn't to represent 2 pr, it's because he doesn't want to miss a bet. If he were looking to make a play, I think many guys would check-raise here.

As someone else pointed out, in the best case scenario, he has something like (Ks Jc) Ac, you are just a small favorite. If he has a buried pair over fours or the Ace, you are big dog. You're also never going know where you're at until the showdown, as I think some guys are going to shut down after your 5th st raise even with aces up. Assuming he isn't a wuss, though, you can look forward to getting raised if he makes 2 pr. Personally, I don't think this is the kind of extra hand S+M+Z were referring to, because it is so difficult to know where you stand.

I don't think you mentioned anything in your original post, but did you put him on a hand, or were you just making a move for its own sake?

Michael

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

I don't play at the higher limits (cause I like my money), but theres a few things curious about this guys' place.

1) He limped with an ace in a pretty good steal spot, all he really had to worry about was the queen. What do we think of villain's limp here? Does it mean he likely just has three high cards? Is he limping with split aces to "slowplay" them? Three spades is a possibility but not as likely as the other two. Maybe hes limping with some K X A?

2) Villain bet out twice with the better board and called a raise from Mike. When I play like this, it usually means I have aces up, and somehow my gut says "maybe hes rolled up ... get to a cheap showdown." That doesn't mean villain is playing like that too, but its a possibility. Another thing, if the villain really doesn have two high cards in the hole, shouldn't he be folding because you are representing something like rolled up or a big pair in the hole. Hero's board suggests that neither street helped much (except 99 in the hole).

Just a few things to ponder.

My personal take: there's a difference between pushing small edges and chip spewing blind aggression, this seems like spewage to me.

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

Admittedly I'm too tight when playing Stud but I make the same play on fourth and fold on fifth. You're slightly ahead or way behind. You have no reason to think he's capable of laying down any sort of hand and raising there what are you going to when he three bets or leads on sixth. The little edge you might have will not make up for the times you're behind.

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

I think the raise on fourth is fine, although I would tend to lean towards calling or maybe folding. I think fifth is a fold, though. If you are ahead, it's not by much. You're probably behind, and you may well be crushed. I presume that you made this raise in the hopes that the other guy would fold, but I think that's a lot to ask for.

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

Mike will not get people to stop playing ABC poker because it is too easy to beat small games playing ABC.

But as you move up in limits and play in tougher games, plays like this one are important to add to one's arsenal. Otherwise, you will constantly wonder why people are always folding when you have the nuts.

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

Not sure what I think yet, but hopefully he doesn't hit a five in the next two streets. If it doesn't then maybe you have a shot at convincing him you are rolled. In a short handed game like this I would pop you back on fourth if I had the aces, so I don't think he has them.

I have playing on line for about year so now, and I definitely think there is a place for naked aggression at times. Otherwise, you are just too predictable. You have to break the "rules" sometime. Stuff like this has to keep even solid opponents off balance, which will pay off later. Off balance = mistakes. The trick is to not go overboard, and get people calling you at the wrong times. If part of the play here is for the meta game, then keep blasting I say. If you ease up even a little, many players will sense weakness and come after you hard. I wouldn't feel the same way if you were a newbie, as opposed to a solid stud player with a lot of experience under your belt.

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

3rd:You're a LAG.

4th:Nope.You're a maniac.

(Since I don't know you I guess I should let you know that I'm just kidding.)

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

1. This is a small game, and in my experience you don't need to make plays like this to win in this particular game.
2. This "play" just doesn't seem very sound, and I don't understand the reasoning behind it.

Michael

I have an issue...
 

Hi,

My only problem with the way you played this hand is the last sentence in your post.

" [ QUOTE ]
Villain just joined the table a few orbits ago and isnt anyone I've ever played with or seen in this game.

[/ QUOTE ] "

4th was fine, but given the description of your post I can't see continuing on 5th. Now if you were playing the $20-40 game I was in at Foxwoods on Sunday, then the way you played the hand would be fine... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Best,

CJ

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure what I think yet, but hopefully he doesn't hit a five in the next two streets. If it doesn't then maybe you have a shot at convincing him you are rolled. In a short handed game like this I would pop you back on fourth if I had the aces, so I don't think he has them.

I have playing on line for about year so now, and I definitely think there is a place for naked aggression at times. Otherwise, you are just too predictable. You have to break the "rules" sometime. Stuff like this has to keep even solid opponents off balance, which will pay off later. Off balance = mistakes. The trick is to not go overboard, and get people calling you at the wrong times. If part of the play here is for the meta game, then keep blasting I say. If you ease up even a little, many players will sense weakness and come after you hard. I wouldn't feel the same way if you were a newbie, as opposed to a solid stud player with a lot of experience under your belt.

[/ QUOTE ]

the problem with this is that you can always justify a play with the "metagame". I don't think mike was really playing this way for metagame purposes.

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

[ QUOTE ]
With all due respect, what's the point here? You started off your post by defending what you knew the response would be. You know it's -EV, at least by the book. If you feel like for you it's +EV because you get a "better image" or you know how to "handle situations where I've put myself in jeopardy" then go for it.

If you're going to play this way, then go for it. But again, why are you posting this hand? And when you get the inevitable response, why are you so defensive?



[/ QUOTE ]

The point of this hand was to generate discussion. I dont generally post hands that are strait forward and mundane. No one, including myself, learns from them. You really need to take a chill pill, man. The opening of my post was simply poking fun at a few players I know and have posted with on this forum for along time. They all typically play tighter than me and I was only joking around with this fact, not being defensive of the play I made. And whats to say this is -EV by the book? Where in the text do you see a hand example like the one I posted? I think you should have more posts than 83, and even more credentials on top of that if you wish to question a hand that I post. To better players I think this hand is very interesting and definitely worth me posting.

Mike Emery

Results and my thoughts of the hand.....
 

So I've read all the replys and finally got what I was looking for in lane mcbrides response. In fact, they wrote almost my exact thoughts that occured as I was playing the hand.

[ QUOTE ]
4 handed, I don't hate it at all. I think you are most likely ahead unless he is a tricky player. you really aren't losing to many hands unless he limped with aces or a concealed pair. the only thing I'm afraid of is a third four (which I don't think he had).

I would say most likely he limped with ace high maybe akx or aj10 or something... and bet fourth as a "delayed steal"
on fifth when he pairs, I give him credit for a pair of fours and that's about it, I think it is just another attempt to continue his steal since he caught a little something. I think your fives are most likely ahead, but I tend to get a little aggressive short-handed, so perhaps take it for what it's worth.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'll add more. What is everyone so worried about here? We have a new player who joins the game and is not a regular. He limps (based on these two things right here I would say more often than not hes a weak player) and has an automatic bet on fourth street against me, the bring-in, with his ace high.

So he bets and I raise, he just calls. Notice that this opponent would have to be very tricky to play a hand like split aces (or the like) on third like this. He would not only have to limp, but smooth call my fourth street raise as well. I think this is unlikely. In fact, I'm betting 7 out of 8 times here that he has an unpaired hand. Some people advocated that while they didnt mind my raise they liked a possible call instead. How do you play fifth then? If you both blank and he fires again are you calling or folding? What info have you found out about his hand? Part of my reason for raising here was to probe what I was up against. If I got three-bet I was simply mucking. Calling here just dosent get you anywhere and makes the hand hard to play on fifth and possibly later.

So after he calls my fourth street raise he leads out on fifth when he makes open fours. Of course he does! He will usually always be betting here whether he has just the open fours, or if I have read him wrong and he has better. Judging from his third and fourth street actions I still think its far more likely I'm ahead. So now the question becomes what to do.

The final result of this hand is that my opponent thought and folded when I raised him on fifth after he bet. I fully realize that many opponents will simply not even fold their lone open fours here in the same situation. However, the fact that I had assigned myself as still being ahead, plus the fact that he might very well fold his open fours on fifth (which is hugely to my benefit), made a raise correct in my mind. I also realize that this whole play is risky and sometimes I will look like a Laggish dolt when I run into something. Be that as it may though, I still like my line given the circumstances. Not saying its right, just that I like it. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I'd feel the same even if it backfired.

[ QUOTE ]
Mike will not get people to stop playing ABC poker because it is too easy to beat small games playing ABC.

But as you move up in limits and play in tougher games, plays like this one are important to add to one's arsenal. Otherwise, you will constantly wonder why people are always folding when you have the nuts.


[/ QUOTE ]

I just wanted to reiterate what blumpkin said above and what I talked about in an earlier post regarding this benefit. Essentially, metagame purposes for occasionaly making this type of play add on more than you might think when you are against observant opponents.

Mike Emery

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

4th= Reasonable
5th= Obviously a standard fold, but you think he's just on three biggies and is betting his board? So, then the play is to raise. But if you do this, don't puss out - you must bet 6th street and plan to check behind on 7th w/o improvement.

Jeff

Re: Results and my thoughts of the hand.....
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just wanted to reiterate what blumpkin said above and what I talked about in an earlier post regarding this benefit. Essentially, metagame purposes for occasionaly making this type of play add on more than you might think when you are against observant opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously you have to have observant opponents for this.

Anyway, I was hoping he called your 5th street bet and bet out into you on 6th. (And hopefully you get a 2nd pair like 7s) That would have made the hand more fun.

Re: Results and my thoughts of the hand.....
 

This is classic "Donator" thinking. Thank you for keeping food on my table.... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].. Seriously though I like 4th street. Shorthanded you can't let people push you around. There is a line in 7CS4AP that says something like "Sometimes you need to splash the pot around against aggressive players to stop them from getting value with their semi bluffs". This could be one of those situations.

5th street is definitely either fold or raise. Calling is really terrible. I only learned 1 thing from the Barry Greenstein book "Ace on the River", and that's you're better off attempting to make the right play rather than settling on something in between. In this hand either you are ahead or way behind. When you are ahead you can't let your opponent get a shot at catching one of his overcards and beating you. When you're behind it's better off finding out now than later.

Personally I still think I would fold 5th street, but then again im the biggest wuss on partypoker. I guess I'll end this post with a quote from rounders:

"You can't make what you don't put in the middle"

Re: Results and my thoughts of the hand.....
 

[ QUOTE ]
Essentially, metagame purposes for occasionaly making this type of play add on more than you might think when you are against observant opponents.

Mike Emery

[/ QUOTE ]


Mike, I assume you are validating part of this play with its metagame value.. Did you show your opponent your hand?

My thoughts
 

I basically agree with the analysis that Mike gave, so this will be short. Whenever I see someone open limp short handed with the high card up I feel like the player is whispering in my ear: "I don't know how to play shorthanded stud, take my money". Either they are risking getting no value by slowplaying, or they are failing to make an easy ante steal with a weak hand. His play is pretty consistent with the later, as Mike pointed out in his post.

I don't agree with what Jeffage said about betting 6th again if you get called and then checking the river. Since Mike is representing a strong hand with the 5th st. raise (like Ts up) the opponent calling on 5th should be scary since the chances of him having just 4s go down with the call (because he will fold just 4s a good amount of the time). So, you might be against 2 pair on 5th.

If he catches a paint on 6th it has a high probablity of having paired him and there is a good chance you will get check raised on 6th. If it doesn't pair him you are only slightly ahead so giving a free card is not bad, plus it might induce him to bluff the river unimproved.

Another possible hand he could have is 4 cards to a wheel with 4s, so if he catches any wheel card you could be behind (or way behind if he hit his str8), so again you should take the free card.

In conclusion, the only time I'd bet 6th is if the opponent catches a middle card because that it is unlikely to pair him.

Re: My thoughts
 

Carlos,

I really appreciate your thoughts in this post due to the fact that you have to be the expert shorthanded stud player on 2+2 if there is one. I guess its a good thing I agree with what you said.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't agree with what Jeffage said about betting 6th again if you get called and then checking the river. Since Mike is representing a strong hand with the 5th st. raise (like Ts up) the opponent calling on 5th should be scary since the chances of him having just 4s go down with the call (because he will fold just 4s a good amount of the time). So, you might be against 2 pair on 5th.

If he catches a paint on 6th it has a high probablity of having paired him and there is a good chance you will get check raised on 6th. If it doesn't pair him you are only slightly ahead so giving a free card is not bad, plus it might induce him to bluff the river unimproved.


[/ QUOTE ]

Betting any non-paint card was my exact plan for sixth street. Of course this makes total sense seeing how I'm going with my read that he just limped with high cards. Jeffage wrote a quick response but I'm pretty sure he wasnt betting into any paint if checked to on sixth.

You also brought up a valid point about being behind on fifth if called. I actually would be worried in a tough game, perhaps the shorthanded 30-60 you play in on stars, but in this game I think I dont have as much to fear. Thnaks again for the analysis, Carlos. It helps to know what you think about this hand.

Mike Emery

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should have more posts than 83, and even more credentials on top of that if you wish to question a hand that I post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, that's an incredible ego you've got there, even for a poker player.

SpaceAce

Re: My thoughts
 

Carlos,

Great post. I agree with you about not betting if your opponent catches paint...I was speaking in generalities about the 6th street play, but your response is much better. I DEFINITELY agree with betting if he catches any non-picture card though.

Say he catches a jack and it goes check-check on 6th. Are you paying off a river bet unimproved every time?

Thanks,
Jeff

Re: My thoughts
 

[ QUOTE ]
I DEFINITELY agree with betting if he catches any non-picture card though.

Say he catches a jack and it goes check-check on 6th. Are you paying off a river bet unimproved every time?


[/ QUOTE ]

You don't seem to worried about the opponent having started with a wheel draw, but I think it is equally or more likely that a player would just limp with a wheel draw than with 3 broadway card (with which I think more people raise correctly). Wheel draws seem to come up for me a lot shorthanded, has anyone else noticed this?

Yes, I would be forced to call a bet on the river after checking 6th because the 6th st. show of weakness will often induce a bluff. However, if I bet 6th, I would fold a decent amount of the time on the river if I got bet into.

Also, I am probably folding 6th (one of the few times I ever would) if my opponent bets into me again and I haven't improved (unless they caught a card suited to the Ace because then there is an okay chance that they just have a 4 flush).

Regards,
Carlos

Re: My thoughts
 

[ QUOTE ]

You also brought up a valid point about being behind on fifth if called. I actually would be worried in a tough game, perhaps the shorthanded 30-60 you play in on stars, but in this game I think I dont have as much to fear. Thnaks again for the analysis, Carlos. It helps to know what you think about this hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

Tough players don't open limp with a live an Ace up short handed unless they are rolled or occasionally slowplaying split As, but this is so rare that I think this entire discussion is only valid when talking about average or bad players.

The worse (or in other words more passive) the player the MORE worried about being behind after getting called on 5th I am. Bad players tend to limp with any pair just to reduce their risk if they lose (when the pair is small) or as a slowplay when the pair is big. After getting raised by your rag board twice in a row they might think that you have trips and check to you on 6th with a hand as stong as As up. (Yes, this is dumb of them to slowplay and then get scared, but that is what a lot of people do).

Your comment makes me think that you are making a general mistake that I sometimes make: continuing aggression on several sts. when I have a very marginal hand vs a bad player just because they act weak by checking to me. Bad players offer free cards often times when they are ahead and you are not taking advantage of this if you go overboard with marginally hands.

Regards,
Carlos

Re: My thoughts
 

re.: "continuing aggression on several sts"

Yes, I find myself often making this mistake. And, usually I know better. The more passive the player, the more one should shy away from the bet. Especially if you're one of the more aggressive players at the table.

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you should have more posts than 83, and even more credentials on top of that if you wish to question a hand that I post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, that's an incredible ego you've got there, even for a poker player.

[/ QUOTE ]

On a forum that has always prided itself as a non-flaming forum, encourages newbies to participate, etc. I agree this is extremely rude and arrogant.

Memo to self: Remember that I am not worthy of responding to Mike Emery's posts.

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

Don,

Mike was just joshing around with some of us with the tone of his post, then Uwda didn't see the humor, then Mike responded. He is actually a very nice guy (and hilarious) IRL even if he has no sense of direction. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Jeff

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

Reckless at best. Dead Queen. Limping Ace. There must be better situations, even in this shorthanded play to get involved in. Is it really really the risk at this level and ante, to risk $160 or more on this medicore holding?

Yes, you do set up an aggessive image that the players need to be concerned about on future hands, but basically I don't like to see this hand played beyond 4th or 5th. Wait for something better and more profitable.

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don,

Mike was just joshing around with some of us with the tone of his post, then Uwda didn't see the humor, then Mike responded. He is actually a very nice guy (and hilarious) IRL even if he has no sense of direction. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

Point taken, but for those of us that do not know him, it came across quite differently.

One thing I do not wish to see, is for this forum to crush the questions and comments from those that may be a little timid jumping into the mix.

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don,

Mike was just joshing around with some of us with the tone of his post, then Uwda didn't see the humor, then Mike responded. He is actually a very nice guy (and hilarious) IRL even if he has no sense of direction. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

Point taken, but for those of us that do not know him, it came across quite differently.

One thing I do not wish to see, is for this forum to crush the questions and comments from those that may be a little timid jumping into the mix.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that Mike's response sounded a bit high and mighty (even if it wasn't meant that way)...remind me to slap give Mike a slap on the wrist th next time I see him...

-Carlos