Defending BB issue
 

If it's folded to the small blind, an aggressive player, who raises, how does everybody play very small pairs, 22-44 for example? My default has been to fold. If you do decide to play here, call I presume, the default line almost has to be call to the river, doesn't it? You can't be looking for trips only, otherwise the odds aren't there, but you can't just give up on the flop either, because the SB is almost always going to bet. Ideas?

Re: Defending BB issue
 

Depends on the villan, is he 50/30? is he 30/20?

What board do we hit? Is it 36J? or is it KT8?

Theres not a guide to this topic really [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] unfortunatly lol.

Show us an example, it will get more replys i think.

Re: Defending BB issue
 

Headsup, you do not need trips; low pairs will often win.

Against the "aggressive" player in your example, I definitely will not fold a pair. Indeed, there are very few hands I'd fold in this position against that player. Instead, I would just mix it up between calling and reraising.

Re: Defending BB issue
 

Against an aggresive player i am never folding and i would prolly 3 bet. After the flop i would have to use my reads and the texture of the flop to see where i stand but against really aggro players i like going to the showdown.

Re: Defending BB issue
 

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If it's folded to the small blind, an aggressive player, who raises... My default has been to fold.

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I believe that it's not uncommon for good players to defend with any 2 cards in this situation. You have a pair.

/mc

Re: Defending BB issue
 

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If it's folded to the small blind, an aggressive player, who raises... My default has been to fold.

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I believe that it's not uncommon for good players to defend with any 2 cards in this situation. You have a pair.

/mc

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Are you suggesting to defend with any 2 cards in this situation? I can't see how that can be profitable. Even if you know he's stealing how can 72 or 84 be worth a call here as you've got the worst hand going in.

Re: Defending BB issue
 

Gotta mix it up, but I think the simplest, easiest solution is to just call down the whole way. This keeps you from spewing chips when you are behind and keeps you from getting bluffed out when you are ahead by an aggro opponent, say the type that will re-raise the flop against a perceived steal defense.

Another concept to think about, though, is whether you want your opponent to fold or not, and whether he will fold. Say SB raises, you call w/ 44 and the flop comes A82 rainbow. I think if you know SB will raise plenty of hands without an ace, that a flop raise may be in order. It's possible you could get him to fold a 6-outer here or on the turn. If you are played back at you can safely fold.

There's a lot of other things to think about, I hope this can get you started.

Re: Defending BB issue
 

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Are you suggesting to defend with any 2 cards in this situation? I can't see how that can be profitable. Even if you know he's stealing how can 72 or 84 be worth a call here as you've got the worst hand going in.

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Not that I personally advocate defending with 72 here, but you're getting 3:1 on your call here so you don't need the best hand going in. Plus, you'll have position throughout the hand. I would imagine a good player could defend the significant majority of hands here profitably.

My personal limit is about any hand with any ten or higher, lower if they're suited/connected. Is this too tight?

Re: Defending BB issue
 

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Are you suggesting to defend with any 2 cards in this situation? I can't see how that can be profitable. Even if you know he's stealing how can 72 or 84 be worth a call here as you've got the worst hand going in.

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You're getting 3:1. You have position. If your opponent raises every hand here (and many aggressive opponents will) how can you fold?

Besides, what's wrong with 84? That's a classic unsuited 3-gapper, a very versatile hand.

/mc

Re: Defending BB issue
 

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Are you suggesting to defend with any 2 cards in this situation? I can't see how that can be profitable. Even if you know he's stealing how can 72 or 84 be worth a call here as you've got the worst hand going in.

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You're getting 3:1. You have position. If your opponent raises every hand here (and many aggressive opponents will) how can you fold?

Besides, what's wrong with 84? That's a classic unsuited 3-gapper, a very versatile hand.

/mc

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I guess maybe you're right and perhaps I should be defending more. When playing in the MLL (micro limit league-now defunct)one was constantly in this position (HU against aggressive players) and I didn't think that it would be profitable to play every hand that was raised to you. Conversely, I never auto raised with uber crap either and would sometimes even limp. Do you consider limping in the SB to be always a bad play?

Re: Defending BB issue
 

odds really are not that important HU. well they are preflop and such, they essentially dictate the fact that u can play so many hands...thats why in HU matchs ppl are raising all the time. They are getting 3-1 odds, u can literally play every hand. Mix in the fact that sb usually has position, hence all the raising, because u have to play 85 percent of your hands at least (so if u should be playing 85 percent of your hands on the button w/ the sb, think of how many u should be playing in postion w/ the BB).

But this is a steal w/ bb in position. You should be 3betting top 35 percent of your hands and Id go down to 33 or 44. But here, say u have 33 or 44, sb steals. Hes a solid player...so I would call to float postflop. Id call, hope for a Kxx rainbow flop and raise. If he 3bets (and hes not a crazy player) then either call, fold turn UI or fold flop if u want. Usually u want to call and fold turn, ppl will notice the raise/fold and act on it if u pull it more than a few times.

Against a crazy ass lag who will auto 3bet any raise on any street...call down. On the flop if hes w/ overcards to your pair he's a 3-1 dog usually. So call him down, most of the time u win, some of the time he outflops u, or catches up...but really folding a good amount of hands here in your bb to an sb steal, while u have position is super lame. You need to play a ton of hands. 3betting more hands then you would think possible, while sometimes using the stealers momentum against them.

I will give u a hint though to postflop play. And this goes doubly for HU matches where BB is out of position to sb/button: Think to the turn. You need to know if he's willing to keep firing on to the turn or bets the flop and gives up. If he gives up on the turn, start 3betting more preflop. If he always continuation bets the flop AND turn consider calling preflop more often, then calling flop and raising turn. Say u do this w/ 44. U call preflop, call a K-high flop, and raise his turn bet. If he 3bets, fold (notice this play costs the same as calling down). If he calls, check behind on the river.

Hopefully this helps.

EDIT: Note that the 35 percent figure I gave was a general figure that, while I do belive that should be the case, u have to take into account how your opponent plays and how often hes stealing etc.

Re: Defending BB issue
 

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Are you suggesting to defend with any 2 cards in this situation? I can't see how that can be profitable. Even if you know he's stealing how can 72 or 84 be worth a call here as you've got the worst hand going in.

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well usually you should muck trash like 72o, 92o..etc, they really have no playablitily factors postflop. Id call 84s though in order to play some pokah postflop.

See the problem most ppl have with HU poker is they dont understand preflop hand values at all. How your hand compares to a random hand (if u are sb/button first to act)...you are almost always no worse than a 2-1 dog to any random hand regardless of your holding...against a aggressive button stealer u will be a little worse but u are getting 3-1 w/ position. Thats huge, especially if u play better than the stealer. You know most likely he may have the best hand but its an unpaired best hand almost always.

So 1. you flop a pair 33 percent of the time
2. a flush draw 10 percent of the time and
3.depending on what your cards are a str8 draw or gutshot another percentage of the time (example JTs hits something on the flop over 2/3 of the time, easily).
4.Some of the time u will hit nothing and steal the pot from K-high or Q-high

...add to the fact that all this is magnified with postion.

People do not understand. If u play optimal HU poker against anybody that does not know what is going on, or even if they are a good tag at fuller games, they will call u a fish. Optimal HU poker boggles many players minds.

EDIT: I guess it would be easier to say call 2/3 of all hands. But this also assumes this guy raises 100 percent of the time. But if u have control over this guy still call super liberally, still call super liberally regardless but tighten up a little if it makes u uncomfortable. Anyway here is a range of 2/3 of all hands:

22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q2s+,J2s+,T2s+,94s+,84s+,74s+,64s+,5 4s,A2o+,K2o+,Q4o+,J6o+,T6o+,96o+,86o+,76o

Still, you always have to remember to take into account who your opposition is. Against a rock tighten up, etc.

Re: Defending BB issue
 

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I will give u a hint though to postflop play. And this goes doubly for HU matches where BB is out of position to sb/button: Think to the turn.

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This is going to do wonders for my HU Blind Defense.

Re: Defending BB issue
 

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I will give u a hint though to postflop play. And this goes doubly for HU matches where BB is out of position to sb/button: Think to the turn. You need to know if he's willing to keep firing on to the turn or bets the flop and gives up. If he gives up on the turn, start 3betting more preflop. If he always continuation bets the flop AND turn consider calling preflop more often, then calling flop and raising turn. Say u do this w/ 44. U call preflop, call a K-high flop, and raise his turn bet. If he 3bets, fold (notice this play costs the same as calling down). If he calls, check behind on the river.

Hopefully this helps.



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This helps a lot. You gave a bunch of good advice but I liked that part about thinking about the turn the best. When playing 6 max at a place like Absolute I often end up 2 or 3 handed and usually leave if both (or lone) opponent is a TAG. However, the times I haven't it often fills up with LP's or LAG's so I think I shouldn't shy away from these situations as much. Playing in the blinds against aggressive opponents is something that I aspire to do better.

Re: Defending BB issue
 

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I will give u a hint though to postflop play. And this goes doubly for HU matches where BB is out of position to sb/button: Think to the turn.

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This is going to do wonders for my HU Blind Defense.

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Yeah basically, against players that slow down, its best to get their money in early. This is even more true when u are OOP.

Re: Defending BB issue
 

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I will give u a hint though to postflop play. And this goes doubly for HU matches where BB is out of position to sb/button: Think to the turn. You need to know if he's willing to keep firing on to the turn or bets the flop and gives up. If he gives up on the turn, start 3betting more preflop. If he always continuation bets the flop AND turn consider calling preflop more often, then calling flop and raising turn. Say u do this w/ 44. U call preflop, call a K-high flop, and raise his turn bet. If he 3bets, fold (notice this play costs the same as calling down). If he calls, check behind on the river.

Hopefully this helps.



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This helps a lot. You gave a bunch of good advice but I liked that part about thinking about the turn the best. When playing 6 max at a place like Absolute I often end up 2 or 3 handed and usually leave if both (or lone) opponent is a TAG. However, the times I haven't it often fills up with LP's or LAG's so I think I shouldn't shy away from these situations as much. Playing in the blinds against aggressive opponents is something that I aspire to do better.

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The only time Id shy away from a TAG hu is if they are decent HU...well actually thats wrong, I like playing good players HU...they are fun to play against. Once u learn the basics of HU and really start getting good at it (and, as for this next part, maybe this is just me) but playing ppl who know how to be aggressive HU can be really really fun. HU against bad players can get tedious, but nets u the monies. Good HU players u net less monies, but have a more competetive experience. etc. etc.

Kind of got off track (Im super tired), my original point was this...while some Tags are good HU, almost any Tag, in 6max or full ring, has absolutly no idea what to do HU. Like I said earlier, some will think u a fish for understanding appropriate HU hand values and will not understand why they are losing when u are just plain outplaying the hell out of them on every street.

Not to mention if they tilt they are pulled even more from their comfort zone...learning good HU play can be a cash machine. I spent quite a while learning it because it was more fun to me than any other form of poker. Sure, the swings can suck, but u get to take advantage of your opponents more than anywhere else. (Note: even if u might swing faster u recover from that swing infinitly faster as well. If u capatilize on your opponents mistakes they can only outflop or consistently get better cards than u over a short period of time)

A decent amount of ppl suck at 6max, even more ppl suck as the games get short (and this is a large number of players out there)

Re: Defending BB issue
 

Thanks. I've got to find a way to get better HU. I'm probably one of those TAG's that has no idea how to play HU. I do try to be more aggressive but I know I can improve greatly in this area. I know that these can be very profitable areas and I really need to get better here.