Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

Some time ago, I posted that I was tired of these people saying "reraise" when they really mean "raise." I went on to say that Sexton was one who I believed had an unblemished record on this front.

3 way action. Alex, first to act, bets his flush draw. John Gale then says "raise," and Sexton says <drumroll, please>...

"Looks like John's gonna test the waters with a reraise here!"

Is this really so complicated?

I mean, I can understand the rampant disregard here at 2+2 for the differences between your and you're, lose and loose, and the Unholy Trio (there, they're, and their), but this is different.

So, I guess Sexton is (like so many others) confused as to how to properly utilize the poker lexicon.

Sigh.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

I think "they're" is a problem with "you're" "lose" interpretaiotn of "Sextone's" remarks concerning "rerising".

Vince

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

I spilt my water when VVP referred to KTo as a "solid" hand. Something along the lines of "But Player X has picked up a real hand here, king ten...". Solid was used in the description.

edit: oh yeah, this was after a raise too.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

[ QUOTE ]

So, I guess Sexton is (like so many others) confused as to how to properly utilize the poker lexicon.


[/ QUOTE ]

My Professional Writing professor made a point of mentioning how "utilize" is a completely worhtless word. It means exactly the same thing as "use". It just sounds fancier.

She thought people who used "utilize" were confused as to how to properly use the English language.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

VVP is routinely embarassing with his "solid" hand bits.

"Oh, oh! What's this? Daniel Negreanu picks up a solid hand with wired fours. Uh oh, he's limping in, putting the twigs and branches over the hole.. setting the trap. Wait a second, Humberto Brenes picks up A3o and raises all in with zip and pip!"

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

[ QUOTE ]
confused as to how to properly use the English language

[/ QUOTE ]

Shouldn't that read "properly utilize the English language." Or does it even matter?

Vince

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

[ QUOTE ]
My Professional Writing professor made a point of mentioning how "utilize" is a completely worhtless word. It means exactly the same thing as "use". It just sounds fancier.

She thought people who used "utilize" were confused as to how to properly use the English language.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your "Professional Writing professor" was wrong.

The verb form of the word use simply means to employ, regardless of the general efficiency of said employment.

The word utilize, on the other hand, has a connotation which clearly involves proper employment.

Think utilitarian, which obviously has the same root, and you may find part of the subtle difference.

Did this "Professional Writing professor" have a paper thingy with Latin words in calligraphy in a frame hanging on his wall? Did you look at it closely?

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

OWNED.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

Hmmmm.... From dictionary.com below. This is different from what you say -- from this definition it looks like you could have used "use" in the original post. Mike Sexton is not missing out on employing words, he's merely misusing them.

(edited to fix grammatical error which may have been pointed out. In no way do I claim to have any command of this language myself [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )


[ QUOTE ]


Usage Note: A number of critics have remarked that utilize is an unnecessary substitute for use. It is true that many occurrences of utilize could be replaced by use with no loss to anything but pretentiousness, for example, in sentences such as They utilized questionable methods in their analysis or We hope that many commuters will continue to utilize mass transit after the bridge has reopened. But utilize can mean “to find a profitable or practical use for.” Thus the sentence The teachers were unable to use the new computers might mean only that the teachers were unable to operate the computers, whereas The teachers were unable to utilize the new computers suggests that the teachers could not find ways to employ the computers in instruction.



[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

many poker players consider a bet larger than the BB to be a raise. Get a [censored] life.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

[ QUOTE ]
many poker players consider a bet larger than the BB to be a raise. Get a [censored] life.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's no call for such a spiteful response.

Yes, it's a raise. I just can't see how it is a RE-raise, that's all.

Yikes, I might need to find a new hobby. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

Interesting, but I think the following sentence actually helps my case:

[ QUOTE ]
Thus the sentence The teachers were unable to use the new computers might mean only that the teachers were unable to operate the computers, whereas The teachers were unable to utilize the new computers suggests that the teachers could not find ways to employ the computers in instruction.

[/ QUOTE ]

The former seems to denote the most simple effort, while the latter seems to denote an actual practical endeavor.

I don't know. Damn, I seem to have pissed people off again.

Sorry, guys.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

your prof was a nit. sometimes, when writing, an author is forced to use a term many times in a short span. those writers that utilize synonyms instead of repeating the same word make far more intresting reading.

vs:

sometimes, when writing, a writer is forced to use a word more than once. those writers that use the same word aren't using good writing.

utilize=use, term=word, authors=writers, many times=repeating... see?

yuck.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

Yes, thank you. I was watching an episode earlier and noticed the same thing, except he did it like 5 hands in a row. Someone limps, and then the next player "reraises". WTF? Doesn't Mike Sexton play poker? How can any poker player not know the difference between a raise and a reraise? How can a poker COMMENTATOR not know the difference? This is very simple. This is unacceptable. Makes me want to flip out and jump kick him in the head. It's a good thing I've never seen him in person.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

[ QUOTE ]
your prof was a nit. sometimes, when writing, an author is forced to use a term many times in a short span. those writers that utilize synonyms instead of repeating the same word make far more intresting reading.

vs:

sometimes, when writing, a writer is forced to use a word more than once. those writers that use the same word aren't using good writing.

utilize=use, term=word, authors=writers, many times=repeating... see? yuck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Although you are bolstering my point (for which I am very grateful), even here we find distinctions:

term=word...............not all words are terms.
many times=repeating....if something is repeated once, then the former would be utterly incorrect.

My point is that there are differences, subtle as they may be.

Your point is also very legitimate. Phonetically, we seems to find a bit of verbal variation to be more aurally palatable (or at least less monotonous), which is definitely a worthy concern when writing.

Having descended into utter off-topicality, I will now cease and desist.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My Professional Writing professor made a point of mentioning how "utilize" is a completely worhtless word. It means exactly the same thing as "use". It just sounds fancier.

She thought people who used "utilize" were confused as to how to properly use the English language.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your "Professional Writing professor" was wrong.

The verb form of the word use simply means to employ, regardless of the general efficiency of said employment.

The word utilize, on the other hand, has a connotation which clearly involves proper employment.


[/ QUOTE ]

You are right that there is a difference between the two words.

However, "use" is the better verb for your sentence.

As a side note, if the verb "utilize" really did have a connotation of "proper" employment (which it doesn't), the presence of "properly" in your sentence would be redundant.

As I have a degree in English literature from a very prestigious university, this discussion is hereby concluded.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

[ QUOTE ]
You are right that there is a difference between the two words.

However, "use" is the better verb for your sentence.

As a side note, if the verb "utilize" really did have a connotation of "proper" employment (which it doesn't), the presence of "properly" in your sentence would be redundant.

As I have a degree in English literature from a very prestigious university, this discussion is hereby concluded.

[/ QUOTE ]

I accept what you have said, and defer to your knowledge of these things about which we discuss.

Humor me for just another moment or two, though, please.

Was the Professional Writing professor wrong?

If my intent (intention?) was to posit that utilize implies not merely the act of attempted employment, but to actually, oh, say, extract from a thing that for which the thing was designed, would I be any closer?

Lastly, is there any validity to the other poster's opinion that as a matter of good form alone it makes sense to vary your vocabulary, particularly when using/utilizing words which are close enough in meaning as to be only negligibly different connotatively?

I am sincerely curious.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

This is the WPT forum, right?

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

I hadn't considered the difference between 'use' and 'utilize'...but there are a couple others that do bug me.
I admit to not knowing what the technical differences are between these words but i believe they might be similar in a trying-to-sound-pretentious way.


One is 'differential' and 'difference'.
"There is a 10 second DIFFERENTIAL between the shot-clock and the game-clock."
How is that any different than a 10 second DIFFERENCE between the shot-clock and the game-clock?
It really annoys the crap out of me and the rare sports-caster that actually says DIFFERENCE instead of DIFFERENTIAL truly impresses me.


Another is done by some late-night jazz DJ's types as well as snooty authors at book-readings.
"Miles Davis from the album ENTITLED Snobby-DJ's."
Why is it ENTITLED? Isn't that just a pretentious way of saying TITLED?


Don't feel like going to a dictionary site so feel free to flame-away at ignorance if I'm way off on these.



FWIW - I saw the KTo hand where VVP commented.
I believe it was 4-handed and it looked like a steal attempt AND he was in the big-blind. Calling it a 'real' hand was actually appropriate in this situation.


That zip-and-pip and fluff-and-puff show crap has GOT to go though.

I'm especially picky about my sports-broadcasters having formerly been one. I don't think the excuse that they aren't trained to do it is legitimate. If they aren't good at it then they shouldn't be doing it. And Mike and Vince are just not very good at what they do imo.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

[ QUOTE ]

Another is done by some late-night jazz DJ's types as well as snooty authors at book-readings.
"Miles Davis from the album ENTITLED Snobby-DJ's."
Why is it ENTITLED? Isn't that just a pretentious way of saying TITLED?


[/ QUOTE ]

Not just pretentious; completely wrong. Titled is correct. Entitled should only be used in the sense related to "deserving," like "Phil Hellmuth was entitled to win every poker tournament last year"

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

Pet peeves:

Incorrect usage of "an". "An" is used before a vowel sound, otherwise use "a". "An historic" is correct only if you're Cockney. Every radio and television announcer in America should be shot over this one.

Diva. It's not a nice term. It's an insult. Look it up.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

I don't have my AP style-book handy but I thought it was 'an historic.'

If I was writing a news-story this is how I would write it. And I believe I actually HAVE written broadcast copy using the article 'an' with 'historic' although I admit I don't recall specifically looking this one up or whether I was ever taught it one way or another.


Another one that someone pointed out to me was the term 'very unique'. I was calling a baseball game and somewhere was describing a 'very unique' delivery that some pitcher had.
Later, over beers, my studio-engineer pointed out to me that unique means 'one of a kind'. Something can't be VERY unique or LESS unique. It's ALREADY one of a kind. So it's either unique or it isn't.
by it's own definition it can't be a matter of degree.
He was correct (at least I think he was) and I never made that mistake again.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You are right that there is a difference between the two words.

However, "use" is the better verb for your sentence.

As a side note, if the verb "utilize" really did have a connotation of "proper" employment (which it doesn't), the presence of "properly" in your sentence would be redundant.

As I have a degree in English literature from a very prestigious university, this discussion is hereby concluded.

[/ QUOTE ]

I accept what you have said, and defer to your knowledge of these things about which we discuss.

Humor me for just another moment or two, though, please.

Was the Professional Writing professor wrong?

If my intent (intention?) was to posit that utilize implies not merely the act of attempted employment, but to actually, oh, say, extract from a thing that for which the thing was designed, would I be any closer?

Lastly, is there any validity to the other poster's opinion that as a matter of good form alone it makes sense to vary your vocabulary, particularly when using/utilizing words which are close enough in meaning as to be only negligibly different connotatively?

I am sincerely curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've got it backwards. To utilize something is to use it for an unintended purpose. So, for example, you might use an umbrella when it's raining...but if you don't have one lying around, you might have to utilize a newspaper to keep yourself dry.

Your question about word choice is hard. The answer depends in large part on the interaction between your goals and your audience. If your goal is to articulate a difficult, original concept to a conference hall full of Ph.D.s, you should worry more about precision than about accessibility. If you're trying to sell your social security scam to a warehouse full of factory workers, and the last thing you want to do is to look like the Ivy-educated egghead that you are, you probably want to go light on the polysyllabic Latinate monstrosities. If you're trying to get a girl to sleep with you....well....actually, do you have any advice about that one?

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

[ QUOTE ]
I mean, I can understand the rampant disregard here at 2+2 for the differences between your and you're, lose and loose, and the Unholy Trio (there, they're, and their), but this is different.


[/ QUOTE ]

What about should have and should of? For some reason I have have only seen this in poker related chat/posts, anyone knows why?

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

[ QUOTE ]
What about should have and should of? For some reason I have have only seen this in poker related chat/posts, anyone knows why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, yes. Absolutely. See it all the time.

I suspect that the reason you see it at poker sites most often is because you do not frequent an afghan quilting sites, where it's REALLY out of control, believe me.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

It's a little whiny, but I also find this annoying. He is in a position of authority when it comes to this little world of poker, he may as well act accordingly.

In lots of the small college games I play in, people prefer saying "raise" instead of "bet" on the flop/turn/river when they are the first to bet. Annoys the hell outta me, and it is also incredibly confusing when friends are trying to recall hands.

"So the flop comes Ace high and I raise."

"Who bet before you?"

"No one."

"So you bet, you didn't raise."

"No, there is money in the pot, I raised that."


Maybe "I raise" just sounds better.

Nitty, I know, but a pet peeve I guess.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

[ QUOTE ]
You've got it backwards. To utilize something is to use it for an unintended purpose. So, for example, you might use an umbrella when it's raining...but if you don't have one lying around, you might have to utilize a newspaper to keep yourself dry.

Your question about word choice is hard. The answer depends in large part on the interaction between your goals and your audience. If your goal is to articulate a difficult, original concept to a conference hall full of Ph.D.s, you should worry more about precision than about accessibility. If you're trying to sell your social security scam to a warehouse full of factory workers, and the last thing you want to do is to look like the Ivy-educated egghead that you are, you probably want to go light on the polysyllabic Latinate monstrosities. If you're trying to get a girl to sleep with you....well....actually, do you have any advice about that one?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for the very reasonable, informative, and civil response.

I just learned something here at 2+2 that did not involve EV. Excellent.

[ QUOTE ]
If you're trying to get a girl to sleep with you....well....actually, do you have any advice about that one?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but I can assure you, any enlightenment on the use of this secret language would be far more valuable than understanding the difference between use and utilize.

In fact, I'd be happy to go back to clicking and whistling if only these secrets would be revealed.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
This is the WPT forum, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, and this is the most useful conversation that the WPT forum has seen in ages.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

[ QUOTE ]
Diva. It's not a nice term. It's an insult. Look it up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see your point, but I think you might be missing the fact that folks KNOW it's not a "nice term."

Think "bitch." Sure, it's not a "nice term," but a lot of women use it to describe themselves or their friends in a sort of endearing way.

The day they start using the "c-word" in the same way is the day we'll know something peculiar is happening.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

This
thread
is
stupid.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

[ QUOTE ]
This
thread
is
stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

As useful as this commentary is, let me ask you this:

Do you believe that Mike Sexton ought to know the difference between a raise and a reraise?

If you have no opinion (or one not worth sharing), just don't reply.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

[ QUOTE ]

Lastly, is there any validity to the other poster's opinion that as a matter of good form alone it makes sense to vary your vocabulary, particularly when using/utilizing words which are close enough in meaning as to be only negligibly different connotatively?

I am sincerely curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this is very valid. Have you ever read something where the same word is used 3 times in 2 sentences? It makes me cringe. I can't even write anything where I use the same word too often. Varying word choice is key in these situations. You don't have to have an English degree from a prestigious university to realize this.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Diva. It's not a nice term. It's an insult. Look it up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see your point, but I think you might be missing the fact that folks KNOW it's not a "nice term."

Think "bitch." Sure, it's not a "nice term," but a lot of women use it to describe themselves or their friends in a sort of endearing way.

The day they start using the "c-word" in the same way is the day we'll know something peculiar is happening.

[/ QUOTE ]

You give people too much credit. They think it's a fancy work for "star".

I know of no one who uses "bitch" as a term of endearment outside of people in the 'hood or Paris Hilton. More a Hollywood invention of people trying to be cool rather than an everyday usage, at least here in the red states. Here, it's still a major insult.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

[ QUOTE ]
You give people too much credit. They think it's a fancy work for "star".

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think you give people too little credit. I think most people understand there's a hint of irony involved, using the term as a compliment or status term.

And by the way, technically, it is not an insult. Its literal definition is, of course, the lead female vocalist in an opera, or the one who performs the aria, if I'm not mistaken.

So it sort of goes round and round.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have my AP style-book handy but I thought it was 'an historic.'

If I was writing a news-story this is how I would write it. And I believe I actually HAVE written broadcast copy using the article 'an' with 'historic' although I admit I don't recall specifically looking this one up or whether I was ever taught it one way or another.



[/ QUOTE ]

Ah ha! So you're the guy to blame. Let's correct this problem one writer at a time. Even if it is in the AP Style Manual that way. Because it is incorrect.

From the U. of Minnesota Style Manual (Here):

An. Use the article a before an initial h pronounced even slightly (a historian, a hypothesis, a horse). Use of an in such cases is considered affected or archaic in this country.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

We're both wrong. And right. You're thinking of prima donna, which can both a compliment or an insult, but is now primarily an insult.

Diva literally translates as "goddess", and is a syn. for prima donna.

And you still give the public too much credit in regards to language. The average person is an idiot. Which is the perfect argument for limited government, that's all I need is a bunch of idiots telling me what to do. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

[ QUOTE ]
We're both wrong. And right. You're thinking of prima donna, which can both a compliment or an insult, but is now primarily an insult.

Diva literally translates as "goddess", and is a syn. for prima donna.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well.....

From dictionary.com:

[ QUOTE ]
di·va ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dv)
n. pl. di·vas or di·ve (-v)
An operatic prima donna.
A very successful singer of nonoperatic music: a jazz diva.
a distinguished female operatic singer; a female operatic star [syn: prima donna]

[/ QUOTE ]

No mention of "goddess."

In any event, yes, the average person is an idiot. And yes, limited government is a great idea.

And yes, we are definitely in the wrong forum. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

Alright guys, I hate to break up the Dead Poet's Society, but isn't this forum supposed to be about poker? I'd love to do nothing more than wax intellectual about the English language all day, but I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) we all come to this forum to make fun of Phil Hellmuth and talk about Shana Hiatt's boobs. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Then again, it was a nice diversion from the norm...for the first couple posts. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

[ QUOTE ]
My Professional Writing professor made a point of mentioning how "utilize" is a completely worhtless word. It means exactly the same thing as "use". It just sounds fancier.

She thought people who used "utilize" were confused as to how to properly use the English language.

[/ QUOTE ]

She sounds like a double plus good teacher to me.

Re: Sexton Joins the \"Reraise\" Club
 

Dueling dictionaries:

From m-w.com (that's Merriam-Webster)
Main Entry: di·va
Pronunciation: 'dE-v&amp;
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural divas or di·ve /-(")vA/
Etymology: Italian, literally, goddess, from Latin, feminine of divus divine, god -- more at DEITY
: PRIMA DONNA

Main Entry: pri·ma don·na
Pronunciation: "pri-m&amp;-'dä-n&amp;, "prE-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural prima donnas
Etymology: Italian, literally, first lady
1 : a principal female singer in an opera or concert organization
2 : an extremely sensitive, vain, or undisciplined person