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04-16-2002 06:32 PM

Lee puts his foot down

Scene: a very good Garden City 20-40. I'm up a few stacks, the game is flowing smoothly, a couple of the biggest donors have just arrived. Things are looking good.

Situation 1: "MW", a sullen, nasty, regular (and major donor) gets aces cracked for the rest of his chips. He fires his cards at the dealer, and stands up - I think to move to another seat. On his way, the floorman says something to him. I am told that he got a 30-minute "time-out" (good term to use with that kind of behavior). Anyway, he disappears for about half an hour.

Game continues, I win another stack, MW returns, buys in another $500 that is sure to make its way to the rest of us. He doesn't go ten minutes before...

Situation 2: it's MW's button. We pay a $3 button charge here. Dealer politely asks him for his button charge. He fires two chips across the table, one hits her in the chest. Dealer glares at him and tells him not to do that.

Lee finally shows some moxie. I stand up, get a couple of racks, and announce that I'm not putting up with that - they can have my action or his, but not both. I tell this in a stern voice to the floorman. Now Kathy, the shift manager, makes the mistake of being in the general area. She and I have known each other for 15 years or so, and had exchanged brief pleasantries earlier. She asks what's going on; I tell her (this is not the first "MW" story she's ever ben told).

I simply tell them that it's their cardroom and they can do what they want, but I'm not sticking around if they're going to allow that kind of behavior. Then I go to the cage (tell my friend the cashier why I'm leaving) and hit the door.

+1 "no more tolerating bullshit behavior" unit.

Regards, Lee

04-16-2002 06:55 PM

Re: Lee puts his foot down


you are more than +1 in my book. nice job! it is too bad that the rest of the table didn't follow suit and make a major statement about abusive behavior. the real key to this is, could you get up and leave the same juicy game if you were stuck two racks? i don't know if i am that principled. are you? just a thought not a challenge. please follow up with what transpired with this situation. J.Brown

04-16-2002 07:38 PM

Re: Lee puts his foot down


You gave up some financial EV, yet gained in principle.

It shows how short sighted the powers that be in poker often are.

How many potential new players would dare enter such a game?

Nero offers bad beat jackpots while Rome burns.


To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle.


04-16-2002 08:28 PM

Re: Lee puts his foot down

I applaud your actions. I wish more would respond like you did.

I play in a small town. I make a point of telling the operator when I cash out if I leaving because of poor behavior at the table. Three months ago I switched rooms because my complaints went unheeded at my regular room. Its funny because the room I went to I was boycotting because of high rake. They had lowered it but it took poor management in the other room for me to give this room another try. Once you lose a customer its very difficult to get them back.

04-16-2002 08:30 PM

Re: Lee puts his foot down

Being stuck should have no bearing on your decision.

04-16-2002 08:59 PM

Re: Lee puts his foot down

If you are there to make money terrible decision to leave.

If you are there to play and enjoy hte game great move.

Sounds like a utility function to me. For me personally this does not bother me until it effects me and then I make it very clear (almost to a scene) that I won't tolerate being whatevered. This usually prevents it in the future.

The dealer is a big boy/girl and can call floor to remedy.

Would you have left if you were stuck? If yes nice principles if no ......

Just my opinion

04-16-2002 10:35 PM

Re: Lee puts his foot down

i hope you do that in a game i am in. it opens up a seat for another live one:).

04-16-2002 11:21 PM

Re: Lee puts his foot down


you know that i couldn't agree more--it shouldn't matter if you are stuck or not, BUT, i know from some of my past foolish behavior that i have sat through unspeakably horrific behavior at a card table chasing that almighty dollar. i am much more principled now than i used to be maybe it has come from hanging around you a little bit. see you soon. J.Brown

04-17-2002 01:10 AM

Re: Lee puts his foot down

perhaps you've missed the extensive discussion on this topic here. or perhaps you don't buy the idea that this behavior DOES effect you in a -EV way. this kind of behavior is EXACTLY why a lot of new players remain outside the cardroom. sure, you have 1 juicy guy who gets away with being an asshole because nobody wants to drive away the soft stacks. but this guy everybody wants around is actually scaring off untold numbers of unskilled players who would rather dump their money to other games than to the jerks at the poker table.

Excellent job Lee, hopefully this trend doesn't have to continue for long before the games get better and more enjoyable.

04-17-2002 03:51 AM

One person

Lee - I sincerely doubt that one person makes a difference.

Maybe two will.

Count me in.

(and, I'm kidding, I know one person makes a difference).

Thanks, congrats, and good luck.


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