Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

I enjoy both the game of poker, as well as the personalities behind a lot of the poker faces we get to peek in on. One of the more entertaining people to watch and hear feedback from used to be Daniel Negreanu.

I was kinda out of the loop for 8 months or so, and reading his "Poker Journal" now compared to things he wrote before, its as if he is a compeltely different person. While not as over the top and self indulged as Hellmuth when it comes to plugging himself, the plugs are getting pretty overboard. Another thing I used to really enjoy about negreanu is how he rarely ever gave even a hint of disrespect towards people he played with after he busted out of a tournament. He always acknowledged their good moves, and was silent ont he bad, and simply took his medicine like you'd expect any great athlete or competitor. Now when I read his articles, its all about bad beats, how lucky his opponents are, what projects he has brewing, how much he tipped his shoe shiner, who's rent he paid this month, etc. There's no more humility, its a bummer.

I also realize there is nothing forcing him to act any particular way, and that he cans ay whatever he wants about his peers, etc., but I think a large reason behind why people enjoyed him so much was that he really pushed for poker to be accepted, and did it with ACTIONS, rather than selling off a peice of himself to the highest bidder(figuratively).

It is indeed a choice whether or not to read his contributions, but not reading them anymore isn't something I expected to have to do, as he legitimately seemed like a really down to earth guy with a lot of great input on the game and the scene.

Anyone else noticed this change in Negreanu that has kept up witht hings throughout the last 8 months? Because I hadn't kept up, it was like night and day to me.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

If I recall he and his 'fiance' broke up still within recent memory, perhaps he's got some pent up anger and now it's rearing it's ugly head.

He obviously has it good, too good one might say.... the problem is HE doesn't know it.
[maybe]

A friend asked me if he was gay a couple days ago, I laughed, no need to go there.

>TW<

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

People who are not intimately familiar with EV, who play well but also have been running lucky, tend to get frustrated when they are beaten by plays that are clearly wrong but not very wrong. That's why my friend always made the two point with 6-4.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

Keep in mind that Negreanu has had astonishing success in the last year. When I started reading his posts on RGP he was playing 300/600 with a bankroll of maybe $250,000. Now he is playing 4000/8000 with a bankroll of $4 million plus. This may explain the differences you noticed.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

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If I recall he and his 'fiance' broke up still within recent memory, perhaps he's got some pent up anger and now it's rearing it's ugly head.

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Man what is it with you! Are you the resident psychologist on this forum. First Yuan Le and now Negreanu. You realy are a jealous sort now aren't you?

vince

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

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Negreanu has had astonishing success in the last year

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Bares Repeating. I've known Daniel for a few years. Let me clarify that. I've know Daniel but he hasn't known me. Well, he doesn't know my name. We played in a few games at Bellagio when he was blowing off chips at the lower limits. Daniel in my opinion was/is a "cocky" young fellow. I do not meen that in a bad way. He seemed to me to be very confident in his abilities and that confidence showed through as being cocky. What I remember most from my encounters with Daniel is that he was always polite. Even after all of his recent success he still makes an effort to acknowledge me whenever he sees me. Years ago I thought that Daniel would be a great spokesman for poker. Obviously, Steve Wynn agrees. I think the kid desreves the benefit of the doubt and maybe a little more time to mature and come down from an incredible year. I believe that he is "good guy" and will do positive things that eventually silence his critics.

Like the fellow said:

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Negreanu has had astonishing success in the last year

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Let's give him a break and wish him well. Tournament Pro's should loud this kid. His success in nationally Televised Poker Events will help to ensure big overlays in tournaments for a long, long time.

Vince

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

Please share some examples of his promotion of the game, above and beyond anything said in a Cardplayer article.

I haven't noticed huge changes in his personality. He has just decided to share more of his material side with the public. It doesn't mean he doesn't still care about non-material things.

I don't blame him for cashing in on the boom. If it dries up somewhat, he will be leaps and bounds ahead of most other pro's. Residual income is endorsed by the poker authors on this site.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

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That's why my friend always made the two point with 6-4.

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I'm having trouble understanding what this sentence means/is referring to.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

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That's why my friend always made the two point with 6-4.

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You know, like when they tried to kick a field goal but it was blocked and they picked it up and tried to drop kick it but had to pass for the 2 pointer instead because they were behind 6-4 and they at least wanted a tie...before half time.

Of course it could also be a backgammon thing. I have no idea. I'll let the "Great Elaborator" elaborate....I hope.

Vince

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

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That's why my friend always made the two point with 6-4.

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I'm having trouble understanding what this sentence means/is referring to.

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Backgammon.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

I don't read his blog, but I have noticed it in his Card Player articles.

He regularly attacks Hellmuth in his articles, he tosses barbs at Sklansky and hand groups, Cloutier/McEvoy tournament style, he even mocks people he busts.

I was going to subscribe to CP, because I used to enjoy the articles, but this is just one more example of it's downward slide - adding Gummybear and Fischman didn't help any.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

Ignored...

>TW<

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

it is funny that Negreanu seems to kind of passive-aggressively cut into others...

There are the 'math guys' who he speaks of with a condescending tone

There are the 'move-in specialists' (Juanda) who he seems to think aren't real poker players

There are the 'solid/book' players (Cloutier and the mass public) who play too tight and are easy to play against

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I think Negreanu is a pretty likeable guy and he is clearly one of the premiere players in the world but we will have to see how he starts acting when bad variance comes back knocking on his door... he does seem a little insecure and seems susceptible to big emotional swings... let's see how he handles his new fame and ego when poker goes sour for a while... I think his true good character will shine but the jury is out.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

I don't mind reading what Keller and Fischman have to say about the game.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

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That's why my friend always made the two point with 6-4.

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I'm having trouble understanding what this sentence means/is referring to.

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I believe he's referring to moving two pieces to the "two point," right in front of your opponents back pieces, when you roll 6-4 on your opening roll in backgammon. It's widely considered non-optimal, but it's not by very much, and some people (like DS's friend) play it to throw their opponent off.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

We need a backgammon forum. It's a travesty to have to put them in the "Other Gambling" forum when it's such a sweet game. But back to Negreanu, I actually really agree with what the poster is saying. He was talking about tipping waitresses absurd amounts so they can pursue their dreams. It's like, that's an awesome gesture, but I think part of the gesture is that you are doing it for her, and not to make yourself sound great in your own blog.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

Well I've seen him a bunch of times on tv, and read his web site, and he still seems like one of the nicest guys in poker to me. He's an honest guy. He's got lots of money, lots of endorsements coming his way, and he doesn't need to make excuses for that. I've never seen him act anything other than polite to other players. Plus he's got a sense of humor when he plays, unlike most of the other top pros. If I ever became a millionaire poker player (yeah right) I'd hope I could stay as grounded as Daniel. I think you're nitpicking on him. I'd save the criticism for the many a**holes poker players out there, not for a basically good guy like Daniel.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

Someone made this post in a forum at Daniel's site:

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poke...ic.php?t=10641

"Daniel described an amateur player at his table as "easily exploitable yet "lucky" player", but it turns out she may not have been lucky after all, and Daniel may have been the one being exploited.

Everyone knows Daniel loves to see a flop cheaply with small cards...especially suited connectors.

This "easily exploitable yet "lucky" player" noticed that Daniel's standard raise was 2.5 x BB. When she was in the BB and Daniel raised this amount, she would call with almost anything. If a large card card hit the flop, she'd bet out. Daniel folded to this numerous times. So while Daniel thinks the flop is constantly hitting her and she's just being lucky, she's actually exploiting one of his known tendencies. This was probably what led Tom McEvoy to comment "She's been slapping us around all day, especially Daniel."

Maybe Daniel should give amateurs more credit."

If this is true, it wouldn't only be interesting, but hilarious.

Don't the pros realize the more they're on TV and the more they write about their game and their thought process, that some of us might get a clue as to how to play against them?

Nope, if an amateur is constantly playing back at them and taking pots, it can only be because they are "lucky".

Would love to see Daniel respond to this post, but won't hold my breath.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

Has Daniel post in the 2+2 forums? Also, I'm thinking Daniel has a larger bankroll then the 4 million dollars someone else stated. Everyone says its not unusual to be up or down a million dollars in the the big game. I don't think Daniel would risk a quarter of his bankroll.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

Negreanu is great friends with Juanda, and all he talks about is how great of a player Juanda is. I've seen him write plenty of times that he thinks Juanda is one of the best players at the moment.

Take it from me who reads every blog, most of the things in this thread are overblown and not warranted in application to Daniel.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

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Has Daniel post in the 2+2 forums? Also, I'm thinking Daniel has a larger bankroll then the 4 million dollars someone else stated. Everyone says its not unusual to be up or down a million dollars in the the big game. I don't think Daniel would risk a quarter of his bankroll.

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Daniel has posted here, pretty recently in response to a "Negreanu Chip Dmping!?" post (which was a completely groundless and inappropriate claim). Interestingly enough, his post count said "4", but when you went to "read all users posts" it only showed one (the response to the post-in-question). Anyone know why this is?


On a side note: Here is an excerpt from this months "Bluff" magazine:

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I'm also taking these new poker vitamins , which I will be ebdorsing soon... It's a new product. A guy from the auto racing industry approached me and said "try this, it will really help you focus." It's got adrenaline blockers in it and it keeps you really relaxed... As a poker player, especially in long tournaments, the key is to control your adrenaline...

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G.S.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

It appears to me that Daniel just notes everything that goes on in his day. Whether is it taking a bad beat or tipping well. I'm sure if some waitress was extremely rude to him and he stiffed her (relative) then we would hear about that too in his blog.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

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Daniel has posted here, pretty recently in response to a "Negreanu Chip Dmping!?" post (which was a completely groundless and inappropriate claim). Interestingly enough, his post count said "4", but when you went to "read all users posts" it only showed one (the response to the post-in-question). Anyone know why this is?


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I think I know why. His first posts were in the summer of 2003, actually they were in response to a NL tourney hand I played. It's in the archives now. I had emailed the hand to Daniel and then I told him that I posted it here and mentioned that I was getting blasted for my play. He posted in my defense, saying he liked the way I played it. That thread is right here.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

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People who are not intimately familiar with EV

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I guess it depends on how one views the term 'intimately' but I find it hard to believe that Negrenau isn't very familiar with EV as seems to be the implication here.


However, I too had the same ideas that he has been having a VERY good year (some skill...and certainly some luck too) and this can lead one to consider themselves to be better than they really are.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

oh, i'm sure that daniel negreanu is thinking hard, typing madly, and strongly compelled to respond to the 2nd-hand-sewing-circle gossip from the prestigous likes of I_Robot-1-post-Poker-Joe-Nobody...

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

I'm actually more inclined to give the guy a break than bust his chops. First off, he's relatively young. To have as much composure and class at his age is tough. Look at other players in his age group who win one medium sized tournament and can't even handle that with class.

Another thing too is that sudden fame and fortune are a brain blower. I worked in the dotcom world and saw it quite often. Yes, he might be talking more about big tips and such (I read his blog and haven't noticed him being too over the top with this kind of stuff) but that's because money has a different meaning. It's difficult to explain unless you've made that kind of money before but it completely changes your mindset. Hopefully, it's one of many phases he'll likely go through as he becomes more comfortable with his wealth and celebrity but I'm not going to ding the guy for admitting he's not broke. When he starts shouting that he can buy you ten times over in the middle of a card game I might change my opinion but he's certainly not being too bad a person at the moment. When he does brag it's usually bragging about helping others. Maybe it helps him cope with the sudden wealth by allowing him to demonstrate to others that he's not being a greedy miser.

Also, regarding his blog, in general, the guy shares a lot of his personal life there. He doesn't give you the publicist approved version. He talks about the good and the bad. It's probably just that more good has been happening for the guy than bad. What's the guy supposed to do if he's posting about what he's been up to lately? Is he supposed to leave out stuff because people might construe his behavior as self-promotion? Should he not mention signing the Wynn deal and let you read it in the press? Should he not talk about a product endorsement deal because people might think his ego has gotten too big? It's his personal blog! Go read the blogs of most other pros who post only highly sanitized versions of their thoughts. If you think Daniel is a self-promoter go read most of the other pros who only post when they have something to promote.

If half the players had his maturity and class the sport would be much better off (IMHO). :-)

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

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First off, he's relatively young. To have as much composure and class at his age is tough. Look at other players in his age group who win one medium sized tournament and can't even handle that with class.

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He is in his 30's. He is not in the same age group as Fischman, or even Laak. These are the only two younger guys I can think of that got over-the-top rambunctious winning a medium sized tournament (I would consider these large tournaments). I don't think Esfandiari gets too out-of-line in his antics.

That said, I think Daniel has plenty of class relative to poker players of all ages.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

Guess it's easy to see how a famous, respected and prodigious poker-somebody like olliejen can rack up 1018 posts in six months.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

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oh, i'm sure that daniel negreanu is thinking hard, typing madly, and strongly compelled to respond to the 2nd-hand-sewing-circle gossip from the prestigous likes of I_Robot-1-post-Poker-Joe-Nobody...

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Nice try, but check out his most recent journal entry

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

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Guess it's easy to see how a famous, respected and prodigious poker-somebody like olliejen can rack up 1018 posts in six months.

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i was probably a bit harsh, and for that i apologize. but here are some things i'd point out:
1. the passage you quoted from the blog sounds 3rd hand, we don't even know if it happened and if it did, if it actually goes down the way its described.
2. variance does happen and the author glosses over a lot of factors that aren't accounted for. what are "her" hole cards? what are his? who else is in the hand? what are their table images?
3. you may not even be aware of it, but in exposing DN's purported hubris, you come off a bit arrogant and with an "of course, it's obvious! what do you have to say for yourself?" attitude.

its easy to criticize someone who puts himself out there to the degree to which DN has and its like he's being castigated for it.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

You need to be around poker to understand how often younger players cannot handle winning large sums of money(in the tens of thousands and up). There is far more that goes on with the pro's and semi pro's than is shown on television. There are maybe hundreds of Vegas, AC, and Los Angeles tournaments each year with payouts greater than $25K.

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He is in his 30's. He is not in the same age group as Fischman, or even Laak. These are the only two younger guys I can think of that got over-the-top rambunctious winning a medium sized tournament (I would consider these large tournaments). I don't think Esfandiari gets too out-of-line in his antics.

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Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

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He is in his 30's. He is not in the same age group as Fischman, or even Laak. These are the only two younger guys I can think of that got over-the-top rambunctious winning a medium sized tournament

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Phil Laak is substantially older than Daniel.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

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He is in his 30's. He is not in the same age group as Fischman, or even Laak. These are the only two younger guys I can think of that got over-the-top rambunctious winning a medium sized tournament

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Phil Laak is substantially older than Daniel.

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Oops, you are right. He is the same age as me. Born in '72. I played with him once several years ago and he struck me as quite young. we were probably 28 or 29 at the time. Youthful exhuberance I guess.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

I agree that Daniel seems to be a really nice guy, and my post means no disrespect to him, just a change in him I noticed that to me was something that has simply made me much less interested in what he has to say. I still think he is a great player, and does indeed seem to be a great guy, regardless of what his motivations are.

As far as the assholes of poker, they simply aren't interesting, so hearing their point of view or seeing their next schtick on TV just isn't entertaining or informative to me. They should save the springer for daytime TV.

I respect Daniel, and I still think he has the game's best interest in mind when he does what he does, which is commendable. I also don't think that money is his only motivation to make poker more acceptable and appealing to the masses, but its definitely a nice addition.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

Right off the top was his attitude. He acts like a professional, he treats people with respect, etc. He was more of a Barry Sanders a few months ago, whereas now it doesn't seem as much so.

He has also encouraged pros to shed the shades and hats and other stuff to make poker more appealing. obviously for some this wasn't going to happen, but it was still a good attempt at lightening things up for the general public and their interest int he game. I'm sure arguments can be made for both sides, that the shades and hats add tot he mystery or whatever, but I think one of the primary goals of people spearheading the poker boom is to make poker a universally acceptable means of competition and gambling. There's only a handful of states where even home poker isn't illegal, and even fewer have cardrooms. It just always seemed to me that in interviews and general attitude, his goal was to make poker more acceptable as a competetive game rather than a backroom shady event.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

Your right. He wouldn't respond as he maybe he thinks he is more important than him.

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

I think this is the closest to accurate reply. Without going into detail. I have had similar experiences with Daniel and get the same vibe. He deep down is probably a "good guy". But he is a little full of himself and his abilities. He does go out of his way to say hi back if someone says hello to him. But i get the vibe he does it in more of a politician way. That doesn't mean he's a bad guy. Just means i think he believes himself a little more important than everybody else. But as vince said this may change with age. Btw i would not put him in Phil H.'s league of obnoxiousness. As Phil would probably look down on you if you said hello. He seems to be an obnoxious spoiled brat. With a belief that the would revolves around him. And you are not worthy of him. Just a guess form an outside viewer. As i have never talked to him. In fact i don't think he has ever look my direction. Maybe i'm not worthy?

Re: Negreanu now vs. 8 months ago... sad times.
 

Congradulations on becoming a new father! I wish you, your wife and daughter well! I hope your daughter is healthy in mind and body! May she grow up to be a beautiful and bright woman! Don't let anyone fool you, the terrible two's are nothing compared to the teenage years! But that's a long way off, well not really. Enjoy, enjoy enjoy every day you have her. My sons are in their 30's. It goes so quick. Too quick. Again, Congradulations!

P.S. Since you posted in this thread does that mean I have to stop posting here? I forgot.

Good Luck,

Vince Lepore

We already have the McEnroe
 

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Daniel would be a great spokesman for poker. Obviously, Steve Wynn agrees.

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Daniel Negreanu could become the Andre Agassi of tennis.

Re: We already have the McEnroe
 

No Andre Agassi is the Andre Agassi of Tennis.