Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

So I don't post much in this forum but I had this bad idea that I haven't thought much about so I'm hoping people can expand on it, tell me why its wrong, or point me in a direction where I can read more ideas on it...

So why don't we just leave? Like, hey, maybe one day we can realize that 90% of the military is a humongous waste and we should just leave a lot of courties and stop interfering and caring and save everyone trillions of dollars. Its cool, I got this idea while watching one of those national geographic shows about the latest bizillion dollar aircraft carier and it got me thinking about how much of a massive waste the thing is. Not only in contstruction but time wasted in training and housing and paying all of the military people who are most likely doing something that isn't necessary anyways. So what if we just said [censored] everyone and left.

Sponger for prez '08

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

Do you like chinese food?

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

Because if we left, we wouldn't be able to protect our overseas interests, which, as the world's only remaining superpower, is all that matters.

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

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Because if we left, we wouldn't be able to protect our overseas interests, which, as the world's only remaining superpower, is all that matters.

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Why do we have to protect this? Why do we have to be interested in anything overseas?

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

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Do you like chinese food?

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Yes. Now answer my question, politics boy.

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

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Do you like chinese food?

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Yes. Now answer my question, politics boy.

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Good.

Short answer is that in the past when we've "disarmed", we've been ill-prepared for the next war and have probably suffered tens of thousands (if not hundreds) of unnecessary casualties because of it.

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What next war? There are no more wars. We have nuclear weapons. Why doesn't anyone understand this? Conventional warfare is a thing of the past.

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

How long ago did this plan take place? WW1? The US military doesn't die anymore in conflicts. If we did, we could probably just build bigger bombs and launch them from US soil or something?

Also, we could be so ill-prepared that the next war won't even happen. Which would be all part of my plan.

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

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Because if we left, we wouldn't be able to protect our overseas interests, which, as the world's only remaining superpower, is all that matters.

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Why do we have to protect this? Why do we have to be interested in anything overseas?

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Because ultimately the most important political force in America is the state of our economy and much of our economy relies on overseas markets. Therefore, we maintain a heavy presence throughout the world in order to protect our business interests.

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

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What next war?

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I'm talking historically. Especially between WWI and WWII.

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We have nuclear weapons. Why doesn't anyone understand this? Conventional warfare is a thing of the past.

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Because we're too pussy to use them anymore except maybe if attacked in kind.

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

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What next war? There are no more wars. We have nuclear weapons. Why doesn't anyone understand this? Conventional warfare is a thing of the past.

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I think its horrible to assume that the only war we have left is nuclear war. Cause then we're all screwed, but then again, at least we'd only need a couple dudes sitting next to big red buttons as our military.

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

People will trade with us regardless of any military presence. Do you actually think Japan trades with us because we have troops in Okinawa. And if it is a pre-requisate, why do they trade with Europe who has no forces in the region.

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

What would happen if your country had an ineffective military:

Germany Invades Poland

Germany Invades France

Germany Invades Denmark and Norway

Genghis Khan Invades China

Alexander Invades Persia

Caeser Invades Europe

Japan Invades Manchuria

Now, a military isn't only necessary from preventing the loss of your sovereignty, for it is also necessary in gaining sovereignty when none exists. I would start here.

American Independence

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

Wow, stuff from 430bc! This should all be relevant today!

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

The only reason for the US military to maintain its massive scale is to defend Taiwan, but this can be done much more effectively with nuclear weapons. So why do we spend all this money?

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

Why do we need to defend Taiwan?

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

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People will trade with us regardless of any military presence. Do you actually think Japan trades with us because we have troops in Okinawa. And if it is a pre-requisate, why do they trade with Europe who has no forces in the region.

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You're right, they would trade with us if we weren't there. They would not, however, trade with us if they were invaded by North Korea, an event which our presence certainly helps to prevent.

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

Those are all wonderful cases to be made in support of having a powerful domestic military.

Sadly, they have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion of why we have such a strong presence overseas.

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

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Wow, stuff from 430bc! This should all be relevant today!

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wow.... maybe you should just stick with OOT

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

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What next war? There are no more wars.

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This is incredibly naive, head in the sand thinking.

Do you see why?

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Wow, stuff from 430bc! This should all be relevant today!

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wow.... maybe you should just stick with OOT

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Are you making fun of me because you think that I believe that germany invaded poland in 430bc?

Really though, yes, I see that 70 years ago a couple of countries invanded each other and there is lessons to be learned from that. But trying to prove that we need a military based on something that happened 2400 years ago is silly.

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

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Sadly, they have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion of why we have such a strong presence overseas

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That was not what the junior high educated OP asked. He specifically addressed eliminating 90% of our military.

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

This had more relevence in decades past. Today, South Korea maintains adequet armed forces to defend itself. Moreover, if American forces removed themselves, those countries would no doubt pick up thier own armed forces budget.

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Sadly, they have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion of why we have such a strong presence overseas

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That was not what the junior high educated OP asked.

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Yes, I went to junior high school. Thanks.

I don't see what is so wrong with my post that you feel the need to belittle me. I clearly stated that these were rambling thoughts. Next time you have incomplete information and ideas I will make sure to let you know what an idiot you truely are for not knowing everything.

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

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Really though, yes, I see that 70 years ago a couple of countries invanded each other and there is lessons to be learned from that. But trying to prove that we need a military based on something that happened 2400 years ago is silly.

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The Gulf War is a little more modern, if that's what you like. I think he's trying to show that there's a history of strong countries invading weaker countries.

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

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I see that 70 years ago a couple of countries invanded each other and there is lessons to be learned from that.

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What lessons did you learn?

Did we, or did we not, save a lot of innocent Jews through the use of our military?

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Sadly, they have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion of why we have such a strong presence overseas

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That was not what the junior high educated OP asked. He specifically addressed eliminating 90% of our military.

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Yes. All of the military that is meddling elsewhere, costing taxpayers money and what not. Leaving the other 10% for defense purposes. How is this indicative of a junior high education?

(of course, when you believe that war actually helps the economy, your opinions tend to be skewed)

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

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He specifically addressed eliminating 90% of our military.

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Obviously, I have no idea what specific percent we should eliminate and was just throwing around a number to see what you though. Anyone with a junior high education should have been able to figure that out.

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

I'm not saying we need a nuclear war, just that thier existence makes it so countries don't start wars. The principle of mutually assured destruction still applies today, it kept the cold war from getting hot.

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

To be oblivious to the implications of this fact

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there's a history of strong countries invading weaker countries.

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and suggest that 90% of our military is an outright waste does not indicate to me that you have completed any high school level history or social studies classes. Im sorry that you felt I was belittling you, since clearly Im not aware of yours or any other anonymous internet poster's age or level of education.

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The principle of mutually assured destruction still applies today

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Sweet...

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and suggest that 90% of our military is an outright waste does not indicate to me that you have completed any high school level history or social studies classes.

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I don't ever remember taking "relevancy of the military 101" in high school.

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

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To be oblivious to the implications of this fact

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there's a history of strong countries invading weaker countries.

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and suggest that 90% of our military is an outright waste does not indicate to me that you have completed any high school level history or social studies classes. Im sorry that you felt I was belittling you, since clearly Im not aware of yours or any other anonymous internet poster's age or level of education.

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SHIFTING THE ONUS OF PROOF: This is when your opponent makes a claim, provides no evidence for it, and then expects you to find evidence of it. Your opponent is making the claim, so he should logically have to provide evidence. Shifting the onus (or burden) of proof to you is a fallacy and a very low tactic to engage in. Often, a Creationist will make phantom claims and, then, act like they are common knowledge and he shouldn't have to back them up.

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Then maybe you'd like to explain how our military is used so effectively, rather than belittling anyone who doesn't see what you believe is obvious.

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

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Yes. All of the military that is meddling elsewhere, costing taxpayers money and what not.

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It is clear that you only care about your own liberty, the liberty granted to you and your ilk by our military so that you can profess glee when cops are murdered, and not the liberty of anyone else.

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

On a moral front it's the right thing to do, but lets say we don't care about that.

The invasion of Taiwan would show that China is not content to simply trade and be prosperous. That it has nationalistic ambitions to expand and conquer beyond its borders. The successful invasion of Taiwan would be followed by incursions into southeast asia. Eventually they could go after Korea, and a long way down the road Japan. This causes major problems for us. We have to defend Taiwan to stop the chain of events that follows.

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

Thank you lehighguy.

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

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It is clear that you only care about your own liberty, the liberty granted to you and your ilk by our military so that you can profess glee when cops are murdered, and not the liberty of anyone else.

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Wait. He only cares about his own liberty and so that means he likes it when cops are mudered?

whaaaaat?

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

um, ok

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

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It is clear that you only care about your own liberty, the liberty granted to you and your ilk by our military so that you can profess glee when cops are murdered, and not the liberty of anyone else.

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Wait. He only cares about his own liberty and so that means he likes it when cops are mudered?

whaaaaat?

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Reference to a different thread.

Re: Rambling thoughts about the US military
 

Dear lehighguy,

thank you for that informative post. i learned a lot.

Regards,
Sponger

(does that sound more normal)