Re: Folding the nuts?
 

If you didn't post the results, no one would tell you to fold. Those who said to fold are giving you very bad advice. Some might be giving you whatever fits the results. Others would justify folding AA preflop.

The push could mean any ace, and perhaps other hands like J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. It is common to overbet in this situation with just the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Even if you know the villain will push only when he has the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], you don't know that he is free-rolling you with a flush draw. In fact, most A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] x[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] hands would fold on the flop.

If the stacks were much, much deeper, you could consider folding.

Re: Folding the nuts?
 

Two things missing from people's math. You can't be %99 sure he has an ace. He could have two pair of various kinds, so I really think you have to factor in at least some chance he doesn't have an A.

The other factor is that you have 3 outs to a full house. So approximately %6 of the time you'll win the whole pot, so you really have to subtract that from his chance of winning the whole pot with a flush draw.

Re: Folding the nuts?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The other factor is that you have 3 outs to a full house

[/ QUOTE ]

hmm..are you sure? lol

Re: Folding the nuts?
 

Bah, you're right, that was stupid.

I did want to add tho, that his call on the flop was terrible.

Re: Folding the nuts?
 

Had to Call

Re: Folding the nuts?
 

Your opponent is on a freeroll - it happens. I refuse to believe that anybody here would not have done what you did. Sorry, you are just going to have to lose some money on hands like this. Move on, you'll do fine.

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Re: Folding the nuts?
 

Yeesh... I wouldn't lay this down. Chances are you split the pot. Sucks that he's on a freeroll but what can you do? He caught the perfect turn card and it's all upside for him. I would think the supermajority of the time you're in this spot your Broadway is good. Folding gives up way too much.

ScottieK

Re: Folding the nuts?
 

I have to agree with riverDood. The $1000 bet on the flop was small. It was only 10% of the callers stack. With a $2300 pot, a $3000 bet would have most likely made him fold. Go with the saying "I would rather win a small pot, than lose a big one"
I also think the flop call was bad!

Re: Folding the nuts?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The push could mean any ace, and perhaps other hands like J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought of this also. It's a running flush so he might likely know that he's the only one with it so it doesn't necesarily have to be the nuts.

Basically it's a matter of the opponents range that he'd do this with. (opponent dependent) If he was the type that never did this with less than the nuts or at least a flush, well...

Especially if he'd have gone all in with an offsuit A on the turn. If his hand range is a little wider for this on the river and he could've gotten a little tricky and decided to wait with something less than the flush, maybe even a bluffer, then it's not a very easy fold.

Again, knowing your opponents helps.

b

Re: Folding the nuts?
 

Thanks for the great topic. I really like to read the responses and learn from everyone. I actually got bumped from a tourney last week 2 spots before the cash on a very similar hand. I had same nut straight and got rivered by a flush. I was upset, but after thinking it over, it's just part of the game. I think it depends on if you are trying to win tourney's or just cash. While I usually just try to survive until cashing, and then push a bit more, each situation is different. My decision was probably a bad one, because I had a cash locked up if I folded, but in your situation, there was so much time before the cut line, I really don't see how you could fold. A win there would set you up to just pick off the blinds and occasional small stacks and be in a position to really place high in the tourney. You had some bad luck, but I don't see any problem with your decision. By the way, if the Villian makes calls like that one after the flop very often, he won't be making too much money anyway.