for those of you that want to bet the river......
 

......what are you giving button here, and are you folding to a raise?

Re: for those of you that want to bet the river......
 

[ QUOTE ]
......what are you giving button here, and are you folding to a raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

BUMP

Re: A hand a friend and I discussed
 

I was just wondering, if you bet, the button raises and the BB calls two cold, is it reasonable to assume that you're no good?

Re: A hand a friend and I discussed
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was just wondering, if you bet, the button raises and the BB calls two cold, is it reasonable to assume that you're no good?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say so, but the way BB played he clearly is somewhat retarded so we may be able to discount his overcall a bit. But IMO a raise from button would mean that we are cooked here. Then again, I later played this hand against him, so who knows.

Re: A hand a friend and I discussed
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was just wondering, if you bet, the button raises and the BB calls two cold, is it reasonable to assume that you're no good?

[/ QUOTE ]

no, how can you assume your beat at all? No one has shown aggression except for you and the button. It makes sense to put the Button on the Kc probably AK or KQ. BB is probably on the draw with a small pair or maybe just on the draw.

Also betting the river makes sense but i dont like check raising the flop. With a check raise your only going to get two bets in, i think its safe to assume that Button isnt going to reraise your check raise. Bet/raise gets the most money in the pot with the best draw and quite possibly the best hand. Also if Button caps your 3 bet you can be pretty sure your up against AA, KK, QQ. Probably KKc so i think there is value in getting that information. I like the way it played out except for the river check through. but im with DERG, i suck too.

Re: A hand a friend and I discussed
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was just wondering, if you bet, the button raises and the BB calls two cold, is it reasonable to assume that you're no good?

[/ QUOTE ]

no, how can you assume your beat at all? No one has shown aggression except for you and the button. It makes sense to put the Button on the Kc probably AK or KQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

he 3bet me pf, so IMO a hand like Kq from this guy was rather unlikely. i also don't think he is 3betting the flop with just AKc.

Re: A hand a friend and I discussed
 

what gives you the impression KQ is outta this guys range? because he didnt cap the the flop do you think AK is still possible?

Re: A hand a friend and I discussed
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was just wondering, if you bet, the button raises and the BB calls two cold, is it reasonable to assume that you're no good?

[/ QUOTE ]

no, how can you assume your beat at all? No one has shown aggression except for you and the button. It makes sense to put the Button on the Kc probably AK or KQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

he 3bet me pf, so IMO a hand like Kq from this guy was rather unlikely. i also don't think he is 3betting the flop with just AKc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't you 3-bet the flop? I see KQo being reraised preflop with position quite regularly by TAG's at 2/4. But I think with KQ he would want to keep the donk in, no? So he probably wouldn't raise the flop. 99 is a possibility as well. I can't see him with a big pocket because he would have raised the turn when the safe card dropped. The turn card is also great for an overpair as it counterfits any flop top 2 pair. Does he 3 bet with small pockets when he's not in the blinds against a steal?

Looking at it more I really think that you're ahead on the river, bar donk-boy having coasted along all the way with a monster that he was waiting to checkraise the river with.

Re: for those of you that want to bet the river......
 

I would put button on 99, KQ, AK, and BB on K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] x or Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for the monkey coldcall. I think it's unlikely a Taggy player wouldn't cap the flop with KQ holding a club, or exactly Ax K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

If checkraised, I would lay down the river. I sincerely doubt we will.

Interested in hearing results.

EDIT: for more info, i stoved a Taggy 3bet on the button, assuming they don't read you for worth isolating with less than below [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

AA-77, AKs-ATs, AK-AT, KQs-KTs, KQ-KJ, QJs
vs
A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

You hand has 75.8% equity on the turn, 74.3% on the turn and
73.7% on the river.

If we factor in the BB is along for his donkey ride holding Kc x (let x= 7s) or Qc x, the stove comes out thus:

Flop: You 72.3 - TAG 22.3 - BB 5.7
Turn: You 72.15 - TAG 24.7 - BB 3.15
River: You 73.8 - TAG 26.2 - BB 0

*even* if we let BB have a quite goot hand, say K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] we get this:

Flop: You 69.2 - TAG 18.4 - BB 12.4
Turn: You 70.3 - TAG 20.9 - BB 8.8
River: You 75.6 - TAG 24.4 - BB 0

I *really* think the river bet is good.

results
 

I am the worst player ever, so a friend of mine has looked at a few of my hands. We disagreed a bit about this one. Button here is pretty TAGgy (22/18/2). BB is a monkey (46/16). Comments on all streets appreciated.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.33 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: (9.16 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, BB calls.

River: (12.16 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 12.16 BB

I assumed villain had me beat, but iwas gonna see a SD no matter what. He showed AJo, BB showed QTo.