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-   -   Age of players and age bias (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=787)

03-21-2002 08:39 PM

Age of players and age bias
 


Just out of curiosity, how many of you poker maniacs out there are under say, 25 years old. Being only the tender age of 20, I was just wondering how many others there are like me out there who participate in this forum. Doesn't mean anything one way or the other I suppose, but at the indian casino I usually play at, I am usually the youngest by a good 20 years, with a few occasional exceptions. By the way, has anyone else noticed a general bias against younger players? I have noticed that a lot of the older players, especially the retirees get really pissed when I win pots off of them, especially if they're big. I also try to be friendly at the table but very often I get a series of very condescending replies that make me inclined to just keep my mouth shut. Hasn't really affected my play as far as I can tell, but it sure makes my time less fun. There are of course some very friendly people, but they seem to be overshadowed by the grumps (at least when it comes to this young whippersnapper). Just food for thought.


Jake

03-21-2002 08:51 PM

Re: Age of players and age bias
 


its just normal jake. i give dirty looks also to those young lads that outplay me on a hand as well.


it will get better for you if they get to know you and like you.

03-21-2002 08:57 PM

Re: Age of players and age bias
 


Hey Jake, I am only 18 and I also play at the indian casinos here in NY. I am also quite at the tables and don't tend to bring much attention to myself. I have noticed a couple of people who are a little biased told me. There was a guy in a tournament who kept commenting on my play, so i was glad when i knocked him out in 6th play and i went on to finish second. I let them think whatever they want. I just can't wait until i turn 21 and am able to play anywhere. Have a nice day.

Nick

03-21-2002 11:33 PM

Re: Age of players and age bias
 


yes there is age bias and yes it works in our favor big time at the tables if you know how to use it. im 28 but look a bit younger to most. older people really resent our youth and our ability to play well. they hate the idea that there may be someone much younger than them who has played for a much smaller period of time who may already be better than they will ever be at poker. rather than just respect that and play their best, they become even more fish like and chase and call you down. so if you just play solid and smart against them, while occasionally feeding them a false image that your a fast-playing gambling kid who needs to be kept in check they will give you unlimited action on your good hands.


sometimes i say out loud "that f*cking kid" in a mocking old man tone as i scoop a big pot and stare down a haggard wrinkled old face as i do so. this makes them so angry, you can see it in their tired grey eyes. little touches like this ensure that the games will be especially good for me for at least as long as im not that tired old face.


(of course dont do this to fish youll scare off--only semi-strong players prone to tilt, use this in moderation, dont do it in a small club where it would be considered over the top, dont do it to men who carry guns and know where you live, yada yada yada).




03-21-2002 11:55 PM

one more thing and i played against archie & huck
 


i will note here that since ive moved up to 20 and 30 tables ive noticed that while there are many players very prone to an almost constant state of tilt and they can be set off by anything at all, there are also some decent playing older players (middle age and up im thinking) who just will not be jostled. they dont care if you are 13 and play well, they will just sit there and play a decent game and not be bothered by anything you say or do, at least it wont bother their game. it's very easy to see who these people are by the way they act at the table and it's also very easy to give them loads of respect. since they are wise enough to realise that age doesnt really make any difference they welcome respect. it's a joy to behold that i rarely saw at lower limits where the age bias is even more defined. of course, id prefer to have more irrationally minded folks around me, but sometimes that just isnt the case.


one another more gossipy note i played against the famous rake-dodging old man 80-160 playing archie at 30=60 commerce last night. he had an indiana hat on and everything. he sat right on my left. what is it you guys hate about this fellow?

he doesnt seem to play particularly well (although he was up $3k when i moved tables) so i would think you would welcome him with open arms. was he just being nice because he was winning? sometimes he would peek at his hole cards in such a way that i could see them (always a welcome thing if youre sitting right next to me btw). no i wasnt going out of my way to look but one time i saw him raise utg with what i swear was 53o. anyway i tried to talk to him and maybe get him to explode or act crazy or something, but to no avail. he just smiled and cussed a little bit and was a nice guy. maybe he sensed i was a big fish so he was being nice to just me and kudos to him if that's the case cause i was playing like crap. i mean, i only won $2500.


then huck seed came and sat in seat 9. he then proceeded to play absolutely NO hands. no steal raises late, no calling in the blinds. nothing. he showed down exactly one hand: AQo. oh and i had one hand against him. those were the only two hands he played. i had KJo and open raised near the button. he was in the bb. he stared at me for like 12 seconds and then called. the flop was JJ4. he checked instantly, i bet, and he mucked instantly. then he moved over to a 20 table i changed to (are you sensing a subtheme here: commerce pros following me around and being nice..hmmm) and proceeded to play absolutely no hands although the game was VERY juicy with all unsophistaicated players playing passively 5 and 6 handed at 3am, about as good as one could hope for. he'd fold on the button rather than steal raise, fold his blinds to obvious steals, play no hands, play even less than no hands. when i told my friend today he joked that perhaps he thinks he's still playing the poker classic and he's trying to make the money. i said i thought it was strange that his chips were a different color than everyone elses.




03-22-2002 12:45 AM

Re: Age of players and age bias
 


I have found many people to be nice to me and always surprised to see that I know how to play. I look like a typical punker with spiked hair and earrings and colored hair (sometimes) but in both vegas and california i have found the majority of people to be nice that i actually talk to. In fact a funny story happened in the 10-20 @ Mirage where I was walking towards the game and heard 3 or 4 of the regulars saying things to the effect of "man that kid just kept folding but he looked like he was gonna be a loose cannon" any way one of them turned around, saw me and said "hey speak of the devil". They were nice to me and even though i had a good run of cards and whacked a couple of them real good the previous day they didnt hold it against me. In fact one of the guys was talking politics with me so it was cool.

As a final note- dont hang around casinos too much (I go there strictly to play and look for good games-thats it), they are the last place you'd want to get a portion of your social life from, the only thing i really dont like about poker is the multitude of pure fucking scumbags that frequent the cardrooms. Seeing all those people that are just wasting there lives away is kinda sickening to watch but oh well, as long as chips come from their stck to mine i guess thats what's important.


Kris



03-22-2002 12:54 PM

Re: one more thing and i played against archie & h
 


When you mention archie, do you mean archie karas?

03-22-2002 01:42 PM

Re: one more thing and i played against archie & h
 


My Archie does not weat a hat, so perhaps we're not talking the same guy. My Archie has a sort of Russian accent and wears floral and other wildish print short sleeve shirts. He does indeed not play particularly well and I once heard him claim he was losing. . .well, I can't remember, he might have said $3,000 a week or something like that.


What is it I dislike about my Archie? He's a mean-spirited, rude, self-centered, obnoxious piece of shit.

03-22-2002 02:36 PM

Re: Age of players and age bias
 


I agree wholeheartedly with the last part of your post, Goat. I dislike most elements of the cardrooms, as some of the biggest degenerates can be seen walking around asking if you want to buy a watch, loan some money, etc. Don't make poker your life if you are under 30, the games will always be around. I try not to get too friendly with anyone in the cardroom, as I have had some people want to hang out. I don't come to the card room to make friends, I got my own. Besides, But that's not to say I don't enjoy the company of the people at the cardroom for the most part. But for this reason, you will never find me in a card room late on Friday or Saturday night. Them nights is for partyin.


DN

03-22-2002 03:15 PM

Re: Age of players and age bias
 


Who in the Hell out plays you?

03-22-2002 03:45 PM

Re: Age of players and age bias
 


I think he meant to say, "I give dirty looks to all those young lads who suck out me."

03-22-2002 03:46 PM

Re: Age of players and age bias
 


Anybody can lose a hand. Everyone makes a mistake on ocassion. Everyone gets outplayed once in a while. EVERYONE!!!


-Zeno.

03-22-2002 05:43 PM

Re: Age of players and age bias
 


Jake,


I have no bias against young or old. The majority of them are all mediocre, which means the games will stay good. But, the younger ones tend to lose their money quicker due to inexperience, and the older ones tend to be tighter, but still lose too. I perfer to play at a table with younger people, because the majority of them play too loose and lose.


Good Luck


Mark



03-22-2002 07:02 PM

im 23 *NM*
 




03-22-2002 07:19 PM

Re: Age of players and age bias
 


man, next time im in L.A. we're hooking up and going to play. it'd be a blast playing with you, (or just sweating you and the action) while waiting for a better table to open up.

03-22-2002 07:21 PM

them nights is some of the best games!!!
 


i find that friday and saturday night games at the Harrah's east chicago are far better than sunday afternoon games. haven't even played on a weekday yet.

03-22-2002 10:46 PM

Re: one more thing and i played against archie & h
 


is he a white haired old man, pretty big guy with glasses? cause i think my guy wears glasses. and he was complaining every time he had to pay the rake which i thought was funny. and he told me he had lost $7k earlier playing 80-160. i think he had an accent


tell me more about what your archie does that's so evil.

03-22-2002 11:07 PM

Re: Age of players and age bias
 


zeno,


I sensed sarcasm in Scott's post, and I was perhaps just busting his balls. In any case, I've outplayed people who play a lot better than me, and I've been outplayed by melvins, so, I one learns that anyone can be outplayed. . . .


Glens full of aces

03-22-2002 11:54 PM

Re: them nights is some of the best games!!!
 


Thats surely how it is here too. I can hang out with real people on nights other then friday and saturday so I think it's worth it to play on the nights when the competition is softest. I wish that the easiest nights were monday and other nights like that but unfortunately that isnt how it works.


Kris

03-23-2002 12:50 AM

Re: Age of Spongebob Squarepants
 


Your right of course. I went off a bit and don't really know why. Bad day I guess. No real reason to take everything so seriously, especially in this forum.


By the way: I love SpongeBob Squarepants. The best cartoon to come down the pike in many a year. How old is he anyway - and would he get any respect at the poker table? Just food for thought.


-Zeno, From Greenland

03-23-2002 01:40 AM

Re: them nights is some of the best games!!!
 


a lot of the time i find really great games in LA in the middle of the night midweeks because that's when all the pros and reasonable players with real jobs are home in bed and it's just me and all the sad sick lonely gambling addicts who cant wait till the weekend.

03-23-2002 02:37 AM

Re: them nights is some of the best games!!!
 


I marvel when I go to the LA card clubs and find that there are so many good games that I have trouble choosing which might be the best. The games are pretty much good all the time at the large clubs. I don't think I am giving up much equity to hang out with my buddies on the weekend nights. I work full-time, and so do most people I know, so hanging out on the weekdays is just too tiring for most. Poker is for weekday nights and weekend days fo' me.


DN

03-23-2002 05:30 AM

Re: them nights is some of the best games!!!
 


I think you just summed it up fairly well. There is such a multitude of good games all the time that you are probably giving up only a little by avoiding weekends. If weekends are your only real social times then I would totally agree that giving up a small amount of expectation is way better then helping to kill off a social life. In fact giving up a lot of expectation is almost surely worth it too unless you really need the money.


Kris

03-23-2002 05:34 AM

Re: Age of players and age bias
 


Sounds good, let me know when you come to LA or go to Vegas. I'm always looking for an excuse to drive out there.


Kris

03-24-2002 06:00 AM

Re: Age of players and age bias
 


im dying to get back out there again. perhaps this summer. i AM going to Tucson, AZ from may 18th to the 26th or so. im the Best Man in my friends' wedding on the 25th. i was thinking about taking the extra 6 or so hours to hit vegas, but im not sure about time constraints and driving logistics, etc. but i will let you know. if you are ever in chicago, ill take you to our only decent public room in the area and then you can feel sorry for us poor chicago poker players.

03-25-2002 05:27 AM

Re: Age of players and age bias
 


I've never actually experienced age bias. I am 25-27 in looks but younger in reality. I have never really noticed any resentment or different treatment from players of any age. In fact, it is only fellow 20-somethings who treat me differently because they see me as another one of them; a studious, poker-loving young person. But this is natural.


I think some people go around expecting to be discriminated against, so they perceive the actions of others to be this way. This in turn perpetuates the matter (crusty, unfriendly behaviour begets crusty, unfriendly behaviour). It's either that or I'm really not paying enough attention at the tables.

03-25-2002 03:30 PM

Re: Age of players and age bias
 


No sarcasm was intended, I have to believe in the long run Ray would take most people's money. Would you want him to be at your table? I wouldn't.

03-27-2002 10:15 PM

Re: Age of players and age bias
 


Poor chicago poker players-- HA! Count your blessings. You have Harrah's next door in Gary, which with the POSSIBLE exception of the Sandia in Albuquerque has the best mid-limit action I've ever seen.

03-28-2002 03:01 AM

...
 


too bad i play low-limit. i won't deny that hte room is decent, and has decent action. but it is nothing to the rooms in L.A. that i got to play in for the 6 months i was living there last year. i mean, if i wanted a LL game, i had about 15 or 20 to choose from between 1-2 up to 4-8. a little higher was the 6-12 and there was always an abundance of those. the tournaments were cool. not to mention all the mid/high limit tables. plus, a variety of games. stud, HE, stud8, Omaha8, OmahaHigh, Mexican poker & Pineapple (i never played these, but they had plenty of tables)


at Harrah's in east chicago, we have 1-5 and 2-10 stud. lowest limit HE is 4-8. then an OCCASIONAL 6-12. next jump is 10-20, 15-30, 20-40, and 50-100. some mixed games, like HOSE or alternating between O8 and Stud8. i think i have seen a 40-80 there. not much else there. occasional 5-10 Omaha8 game. thats it for the entire area.

03-29-2002 05:58 PM

I think he means Archie Andrews
 


Regards, Lee "Jughead" Jones

04-01-2002 04:19 AM

Re: Age of players and age bias
 


Hey buddy, why don't you consider what poker would be like, if you were a winning black guy. It's like this. You have a bunch of "buddies", when you are the chump. After you start winning, the dealers are the first to start giving you the "strange" behavior, then the floorperson's. Oddly enough, the players aren't much of problem, except for the occasional racist, (who is generally angry at the entire world, simply because he was born).


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