Impromptu Check-Raise
 

The check-raise was not planned. I decided to raise when I saw that UTG+2 checked behind. I did not fear the other two and figured I had excellent chances of having the best hand should he fold. UTG+2 semms to be a TAG and a decent player (too few hands to be certain) so I decided to give his flop raise some respect.

MP2 is laggy, boderline maniac.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: (5.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, MP2 calls, CO folds, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG folds, UTG+2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (12.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.75 BB

Re: Impromptu Check-Raise
 

2/4 so it might be psycho crazy as standard and full of bluffing maniac. As im a .25/.50 player ill go with what id do at my stakes.


BB special, Your kicker sucks and will most likly be used.


Flop: bet/call - FINE
turn: BET it&amp; fold to raise, Or check/call it - What does check raising achieve when your probably behind 2pair/Ace+kicker&gt;
river: Check/call - Fine the way you played it, Cant really fold for 1 bet now.

Re: Impromptu Check-Raise
 

"turn: BET it&amp; fold to raise, Or check/call it - What does check raising achieve when your probably behind 2pair/Ace+kicker"

the turn bettor is not the flop raiser.

i like the check raise and call down. i'd expect to lose though.

good hand to post.

Re: Impromptu Check-Raise
 

I hat to see MP2 cold calling 2 on the flop. But if he's a borderline maniac, I like the call down.

I think the check raise was a good idea, you might have gotten a flush draw to fold, which is what I would think the UTG's have.

Re: Impromptu Check-Raise
 

This looks perfect.

Re: Impromptu Check-Raise
 

[ QUOTE ]
This looks perfect

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Results
 

I wanted to share the results of the hand and figured we're far enough in the thread.

Still in white though.

<font color="white"> MP2 shows [ Kc, 6s ] a pair of sixes.
Hero shows [ Ah, 8c ] a pair of aces.
Hero wins $56.50 from the main pot with a pair of aces. </font>

Re: Impromptu Check-Raise
 

I like your thinking, and I think the way you played it was great. You may well have gotten at least one of the UTGs to fold a better hand (AT, for instance).

What was your plan if UTG+2 bet the turn?

Re: Impromptu Check-Raise
 

:grunch:

Interesting situation. I think I like the check-raise here. Once the flop raiser checks shows weakness you have the ability to face him with two cold and can possibly fold something like A9/AT and flush draws. I assume your line was check/call until UTG+2 checked?

This play has the potential to protect your vulnerable and isolate the maniac. Well played IMHO.

Re: Impromptu Check-Raise
 

Wow i must really suck.
Nice, although i dont do results orientated. So i still stand by my opinion.

Can someone explain why im so wrong? ALSO what do you put UTG on? Mp2 on?

Re: Impromptu Check-Raise
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow i must really suck.
Nice, although i dont do results orientated. So i still stand by my opinion.

Can someone explain why im so wrong? ALSO what do you put UTG on? Mp2 on?

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BB special, Your kicker sucks and will most likly be used.

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I think your problem is with the italicized part. Since there was no preflop raise, why do you think your kicker sucks?

Re: Impromptu Check-Raise
 

MP2 be bluffing with any two here since everyone checked to him. Especially since the read is maniac we can't automatically put him on something that beats us.

UTG could very easily be playing a flush draw or medium pocket pair, might as well get him out and take away additional ways to get beat

UTG+2 seems to have an ace that could beat us, but that he has apparantly lost faith in. Nothing else really seems to make sense for his hand, but perhaps I'm missing something. I think his hand is the most important reason why I like the c/r. We could very possibly encourage him to fold the best hand here.

I think the piece that I'm looking at is that we may or may not have MP2 beat here. Perhaps he has garbage and is drawing dead to us, maybe he has A7 and we are drawing thin. But I think that either way we pick up a lot of pot equity when we suceed at getting it heads up with him in this situation.

Re: Impromptu Check-Raise
 

Can someone explain why im so wrong?

On the turn, last pos player (LAG) bets when checked through. This doesn't necessarily signal strenght, but more often he's trying to buy the pot.

ALSO what do you put UTG on? Mp2 on?

UTG's play is really strange. On the flop, I would be guessing AJ-A9 perhaps, or a flushdraw... But why bet a flushdraw into a number of players? By the turn, when he checks, I would think he's got a vulnerable hand that he tried to protect on the flop, but it failed. Could be middle pair with some OK kicker, probably sooted. Maybe some overplayed middle range PP.

By the time MP2 bets on the turn, my range of hands on him is basically almost any two. When he 3-bets, I'll have to suspect he might have a hand. But since he's a LAG, it can still be something we beat, and it may even be a bluff with something like K high...

Re: Impromptu Check-Raise
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wow i must really suck.
Nice, although i dont do results orientated. So i still stand by my opinion.

Can someone explain why im so wrong? ALSO what do you put UTG on? Mp2 on?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
BB special, Your kicker sucks and will most likly be used.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your problem is with the italicized part. Since there was no preflop raise, why do you think your kicker sucks?

[/ QUOTE ]

It appears likely to me that the kicker is going to play (and perhaps lose) against UTG+2. But if we can get him to fold a hand like A9/AT/AJ then our kicker matters a whole lot less against MP2. By taking this oppurtunity to c/r a maniac we are respresenting a much stronger hand than we actually have and have a decent chance at accomplishing this.

Re: Impromptu Check-Raise
 

[ QUOTE ]
Can someone explain why im so wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think if not for the reasons already stated, you are wrong because you're reading the hand incorrectly. Go through it carefully.

Re: Impromptu Check-Raise
 

This doesn't look too bad IMO, especially after UTG+2 checks the turn, making it look like he has a flush draw. Obviously he didn't here but I think on that flop and with that action it's a safe assumption. Just be wary of a river [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] if he calls two on the turn.

Re: Impromptu Check-Raise
 

[ QUOTE ]
It appears likely to me that the kicker is going to play (and perhaps lose) against UTG+2. But if we can get him to fold a hand like A9/AT/AJ then our kicker matters a whole lot less against MP2. By taking this oppurtunity to c/r a maniac we are respresenting a much stronger hand than we actually have and have a decent chance at accomplishing this.

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On the flop it looks like Hero is up against a better ace. UTG+2's flop on the turn screams, "I have Kx[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]," to me. At that point I stop worrying about my kicker.

Re: Impromptu Check-Raise
 

[ QUOTE ]
This doesn't look too bad IMO, especially after UTG+2 checks the turn, making it look like he has a flush draw. Obviously he didn't here but I think on that flop and with that action it's a safe assumption. Just be wary of a river [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] if he calls two on the turn.

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Flush? Perhaps, but OP's read on UTG+2 is a TAG and a decent player. Would most decent players face MP2 and CO with two with a flop flush draw? I admit that I seriously need to work on my hand reading, but it seems like UTG+2 put in a protection raise and gave up on the turn.

Re: Impromptu Check-Raise
 

I like how you played it (or at least I would probably play the same way, which may or may not be good for you). If MP2 is LAG he would probably raise A9+ preflop. He might have a 6 or or 2 that he now thinks is good, or just bluffing. He is probably a moron that doesn't respect your check/raise, but you can't keep pushing in case he has 67.

UTG+2 looks to me like he has a flush draw (though I don't know what flush draw a TAG would limp with) or something like 88 or 99. Could be a small suited A3s or somthing as well. After you just called his PF raise I don't think he would check behind A8+.

Re: Impromptu Check-Raise
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This doesn't look too bad IMO, especially after UTG+2 checks the turn, making it look like he has a flush draw. Obviously he didn't here but I think on that flop and with that action it's a safe assumption. Just be wary of a river [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] if he calls two on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Flush? Perhaps, but OP's read on UTG+2 is a TAG and a decent player. Would most decent players face MP2 and CO with two with a flop flush draw? I admit that I seriously need to work on my hand reading, but it seems like UTG+2 put in a protection raise and gave up on the turn.

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This is true, but there's not that much he can have that necessarily fits his play. Big aces would've been either raised preflop or bet on the turn, two pair/sets would've been bet on the turn, and he wouldn't have folded a flush draw. Maybe 88/77 if he was getting frisky.

Re: Impromptu Check-Raise
 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar till:</font><hr />
ALSO what do you put UTG on? Mp2 on?

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I described MP2 as borderline maniac. He had a VPIP of 70% PFR 13% and went to showdown 62%. He could have anything. More likely a weak hand than a good one (since there are more weak hands possible).

UTG doesn't do anything but check/call the entire hand so it's hard to put him on anything. Besides got less than 30 hands om him.

I had more respect for UTG+2, wich is why I wanted him out.