KK 15/30 at Stars
 

Im in a 9-handed PokerStars 15/30 game, find K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in UTG+1. I raise. Two midpos callers. Small Blind calls.

Flop 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I bet, midpos raise, small blind bets three. After taking a little bit of time, I am not able to put both of them on a worse hand than mine. I fold. But deep inside i feel a bit weak.

Anyone support me - or strongly disagree?

Re: KK 15/30 at Stars
 

I can put them on hands you beat, but there are a lot more hands you don't beat. Plus, there are lots of cards that will beat you on the turn and river if you aren't already I beat. You really have no redraws, so I think it was a prudent fold.

Re: KK 15/30 at Stars
 

I don't find a fold on the flop. Here are a couple of possibles, just pulled them out of the air:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=951789
pokenum -h ks kd - - th td - - 6h 7h -- 5h 8h 7c
Holdem Hi: 903 enumerated boards containing 7c 8h 5h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ks Kd 265 29.35 629 69.66 9 1.00 0.297
Td Th 86 9.52 808 89.48 9 1.00 0.099
7h 6h 543 60.13 351 38.87 9 1.00 0.605

pokenum -h ks kd - - th td - - 6h ah -- 5h 8h 7c
Holdem Hi: 903 enumerated boards containing 7c 8h 5h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ks Kd 291 32.23 603 66.78 9 1.00 0.326
Td Th 73 8.08 821 90.92 9 1.00 0.084
Ah 6h 530 58.69 364 40.31 9 1.00 0.590

Of course you could be in jail:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=951793
pokenum -h ks kd - - 7s 7d - - 6h ah -- 5h 8h 7c
Holdem Hi: 903 enumerated boards containing 7c 8h 5h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ks Kd 37 4.10 848 93.91 18 1.99 0.048
7s 7d 493 54.60 392 43.41 18 1.99 0.553
Ah 6h 355 39.31 530 58.69 18 1.99 0.400

I guess one thing to consider is how likely is it midposition raiser has an overpair to the board but an underpair to you.

Also, aggression levels of players seems very important.

No definitive answer here.

Re: KK 15/30 at Stars
 

I'm not folding if all you can tell me about them is that they coldcalled in MP.

Re: KK 15/30 at Stars
 

nice fold, limit hold'em sucks they always have you beat

Re: KK 15/30 at Stars
 

Fold looks good to me without reads. What did they have?

Re: KK 15/30 at Stars
 

strongly disagree. there are more hands here that you beat than those you dont beat.

Re: KK 15/30 at Stars
 

Very weak fold! I have a hard time putting them on hands that beat you, which hands did you have in mind.

If you make a habit of folding a big overpair to a flop 3-bet, even on a scary board, you will be giving up on a lot of EV.

Re: KK 15/30 at Stars
 

That's a fine example of a typical weak/tight play.

Re: KK 15/30 at Stars
 

I have to agree there are alot of hands that you can beat. the hands that have you drawing near dead are 69 or 46, I don't think you can put any one on those hands just yet especially the middle position player. There also are alot of draws that these guys could have and if a blank hits on the turn you will be the favorite to win the pot. So the hands you are afraid of are two pair and trips. With two pair you are getting correct odds to atleast call and as far as trips I think you need to get more info to suffieciently put someone on trips. I would cap if I were you, that will push the middle position player out as he would have call two bets cold and give you position against the small blind. It will also define your hand as an overpair and not two overcards as they might have been thinking. If the middle position player calls he has you beat or is at least on a good flush draw. On the turn if the small blind bets into you can now maybe think about throwing it awaying depending on what hit on the turn. I say play the flop aggressive and if they continue to show agression on the turn then you can fold. Really they could easily just be putting you on over cards here and think that they have you beat. Do you have any reads on the players? So what actually happen?