Negreanu vs Dreamclown match
 

Negreanu is the worst player we can find that will play the 500-1000 game aside from jimmywins and riverraul. If you dont see why, you either have not watched the match, or do not have enough HU experience or have a weird case of biased selective memory. He is clearly playing the game on the level of a breakeven 10-20 player.



Also about the trashtalking...

I think it makes the game fun and is not classless at all, so give DN (and DC) a break on that one. It's a fun match and no one feels like they're playing high stakes (since out part is split into 1/4ths we're actually playing too low).

What I would hate to see is if DN uses the "you guys have no class and because of that I am not going to play you anymore" excuse. From the little I know about his character
this is entirely possible as soon as he realizes he is being outplayed and his reputation is on the line hurting his business image. I wanted to be the one to point it out before it happens so that he doesn’t leave these matches looking like a champ.

Hopefully I will be posting some replies to your responses. I read that mason malmuth is rooting for us, so that may increase the chance of that happening.

Re: Negreanu vs Dreamclown match
 

sweet, thanks for starting another thread about this match especially in the forum where likely no one cares.

Re: Negreanu vs Dreamclown match
 

I didnt watch that much, but yeah it did not seem like DN was playing particularly well. One specific hand I remember DN 3 bet the turn on a AQT3r board, and checked behind on a river 3 with AT. Missing that bet looked pretty bad to me, and if he misses bets in similar situations you(?)/DC will certainly beat him up long term.

Welcome to the forum.

Re: Negreanu vs Dreamclown match
 

talking smack and having an ego the size of the state of Nevada is all part of any high stakes poker player. I only think that you can get your ego under control when you reach the age of a guy like Doyle or TJ. The rest of the online players w/o that ego that are long term winners are likely posting on these forums learning how to get to the 500/1000 games.

Re: Negreanu vs Dreamclown match
 

[ QUOTE ]
sweet, thanks for starting another thread about this match especially in the forum where it might actually result in intelligent discussion

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

several hands from the match
 

obviously there are somewhat biased since I am posting them but I actually dont think there were any great hands to posts in the defence of the DN side. His wins were basically ABC poker.


Texas Hold'em $500-$1000 (real money), #1,643,731,853
Table Dreamclown's HE, 28 Dec 2005 10:15 PM ET



Seat 3: KidPoker ($104,193.25 in chips)
Seat 8: Dreamclown ($45,699.75 in chips)



ANTES/BLINDS
Dreamclown posts blind ($250), KidPoker posts blind ($500).

PRE-FLOP
Dreamclown bets $750, KidPoker calls $500.

FLOP [board cards JS,7H,KH ]
KidPoker checks, Dreamclown bets $500, KidPoker calls $500.

TURN [board cards JS,7H,KH,KD ]
KidPoker checks, Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker calls $1,000.

RIVER [board cards JS,7H,KH,KD,3D ]
KidPoker checks, Dreamclown checks.

SHOWDOWN
KidPoker shows [ 8C,5S ]
Dreamclown shows [ QC,8H ]
Dreamclown wins $4,999.



SUMMARY
Dealer: Dreamclown
Pot: $5,000, (including rake: $1)
KidPoker, loses $2,500
Dreamclown, bets $2,500, collects $4,999, net $2,499








Hand 2)

Texas Hold'em $500-$1000 (real money), #1,643,657,872
Table Dreamclown's HE, 28 Dec 2005 9:55 PM ET



Seat 3: KidPoker ($118,954.25 in chips)
Seat 8: Dreamclown ($30,962.25 in chips)



ANTES/BLINDS
KidPoker posts blind ($250), Dreamclown posts blind ($500).

PRE-FLOP
KidPoker bets $750, Dreamclown calls $500.

FLOP [board cards KD,8C,QH ]
Dreamclown checks, KidPoker bets $500, Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker bets $1,000, Dreamclown calls $500.

TURN [board cards KD,8C,QH,2H ]
Dreamclown checks, KidPoker bets $1,000, Dreamclown calls $1,000.

RIVER [board cards KD,8C,QH,2H,QD ]
Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker bets $2,000, Dreamclown calls $1,000.

SHOWDOWN
KidPoker shows [ JH,10H ]
Dreamclown shows [ 3C,QS ]
Dreamclown wins $10,999.



SUMMARY
Dealer: KidPoker
Pot: $11,000, (including rake: $1)
KidPoker, loses $5,500
Dreamclown, bets $5,500, collects $10,999, net $5,499



Hand 3)

Texas Hold'em $500-$1000 (real money), #1,643,829,069
Table Dreamclown's HE, 28 Dec 2005 10:41 PM ET



Seat 3: KidPoker ($86,918.25 in chips)
Seat 8: Dreamclown ($62,925.25 in chips)



ANTES/BLINDS
Dreamclown posts blind ($250), KidPoker posts blind ($500).

PRE-FLOP
Dreamclown bets $750, KidPoker calls $500.

FLOP [board cards 8H,QD,8S ]
KidPoker checks, Dreamclown bets $500, KidPoker bets $1,000, Dreamclown calls $500.

TURN [board cards 8H,QD,8S,QC ]
KidPoker bets $1,000, Dreamclown bets $2,000, KidPoker bets $2,000, Dreamclown calls $1,000.

RIVER [board cards 8H,QD,8S,QC,JH ]
KidPoker bets $1,000, Dreamclown calls $1,000.

SHOWDOWN
KidPoker shows [ JD,10H ]
Dreamclown shows [ 7H,8D ]
Dreamclown wins $11,999.



SUMMARY
Dealer: Dreamclown
Pot: $12,000, (including rake: $1)
KidPoker, loses $6,000
Dreamclown, bets $6,000, collects $11,999, net $5,999




Hand 4)


Texas Hold'em $500-$1000 (real money), #1,643,833,259
Table Dreamclown's HE, 28 Dec 2005 10:42 PM ET



Seat 3: KidPoker ($87,416.75 in chips)
Seat 8: Dreamclown ($62,424.25 in chips)



ANTES/BLINDS
KidPoker posts blind ($250), Dreamclown posts blind ($500).

PRE-FLOP
KidPoker bets $750, Dreamclown calls $500.

FLOP [board cards 8D,KS,8S ]
Dreamclown checks, KidPoker bets $500, Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker calls $500.

TURN [board cards 8D,KS,8S,4S ]
Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker calls $1,000.

RIVER [board cards 8D,KS,8S,4S,KH ]
Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker calls $1,000.

SHOWDOWN
Dreamclown shows [ 7S,8H ]
KidPoker mucks cards [ JS,10D ]
Dreamclown wins $7,999.



SUMMARY
Dealer: KidPoker
Pot: $8,000, (including rake: $1)
KidPoker, loses $4,000
Dreamclown, bets $4,000, collects $7,999, net $3,999



Hand 5) my 2nd favorite


Texas Hold'em $500-$1000 (real money), #1,644,001,485
Table Dreamclown's HE, 28 Dec 2005 11:28 PM ET



Seat 3: KidPoker ($114,113.75 in chips)
Seat 8: Dreamclown ($35,631.25 in chips)



ANTES/BLINDS
KidPoker posts blind ($250), Dreamclown posts blind ($500).

PRE-FLOP
KidPoker bets $750, Dreamclown calls $500.

FLOP [board cards JD,3C,6H ]
Dreamclown checks, KidPoker checks.

TURN [board cards JD,3C,6H,8S ]
Dreamclown checks, KidPoker checks.

RIVER [board cards JD,3C,6H,8S,2H ]
Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker calls $1,000.

SHOWDOWN
Dreamclown shows [ 7D,2C ]
KidPoker mucks cards [ 9H,KC ]
Dreamclown wins $3,999.



SUMMARY
Dealer: KidPoker
Pot: $4,000, (including rake: $1)
KidPoker, loses $2,000
Dreamclown, bets $2,000, collects $3,999, net $1,999


hand 6) my favorite



Texas Hold'em $500-$1000 (real money), #1,644,185,129
Table Dreamclown's HE, 29 Dec 2005 12:21 AM ET



Seat 3: KidPoker ($103,050.75 in chips)
Seat 8: Dreamclown ($89,694.50 in chips)



ANTES/BLINDS
Dreamclown posts blind ($250), KidPoker posts blind ($500).

PRE-FLOP
Dreamclown bets $750, KidPoker calls $500.

FLOP [board cards KH,5C,2S ]
KidPoker checks, Dreamclown bets $500, KidPoker bets $1,000, Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker calls $500.

TURN [board cards KH,5C,2S,AH ]
KidPoker checks, Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker bets $2,000, Dreamclown calls $1,000.

RIVER [board cards KH,5C,2S,AH,KC ]
KidPoker bets $1,000, Dreamclown calls $1,000.

SHOWDOWN
KidPoker shows [ 7H,JH ]
Dreamclown shows [ QC,6H ]
Dreamclown wins $10,999.



SUMMARY
Dealer: Dreamclown
Pot: $11,000, (including rake: $1)
KidPoker, loses $5,500
Dreamclown, bets $5,500, collects $10,999, net $5,499



Hand 7) actually not as interesting but still fun


Texas Hold'em $500-$1000 (real money), #1,644,210,385
Table Dreamclown's HE, 29 Dec 2005 12:28 AM ET



Seat 3: KidPoker ($108,789.75 in chips)
Seat 8: Dreamclown ($83,938 in chips)



ANTES/BLINDS
KidPoker posts blind ($250), Dreamclown posts blind ($500).

PRE-FLOP
KidPoker bets $750, Dreamclown calls $500.

FLOP [board cards 7C,3H,8C ]
Dreamclown checks, KidPoker bets $500, Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker bets $1,000, Dreamclown calls $500.

TURN [board cards 7C,3H,8C,8H ]
Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker calls $1,000.

RIVER [board cards 7C,3H,8C,8H,7D ]
Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker folds.

SHOWDOWN
Dreamclown shows [ 2C,3D ]
Dreamclown wins $7,999.



SUMMARY
Dealer: KidPoker
Pot: $8,000, (including rake: $1)
KidPoker, loses $3,500
Dreamclown, bets $4,500, collects $7,999, net $3,499

Re: Negreanu vs Dreamclown match
 

[ QUOTE ]
I didnt watch that much, but yeah it did not seem like DN was playing particularly well. One specific hand I remember DN 3 bet the turn on a AQT3r board, and checked behind on a river 3 with AT. Missing that bet looked pretty bad to me, and if he misses bets in similar situations you(?)/DC will certainly beat him up long term.

Welcome to the forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, he misses a lot of bets. This hand disgusted me:

Texas Hold'em $500-$1000 (real money), #1,644,004,761
Table Dreamclown's HE, 28 Dec 2005 11:29 PM ET
Seat 3: KidPoker ($108,113.75 in chips)
Seat 8: Dreamclown ($41,628.75 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
Dreamclown posts blind ($250), KidPoker posts blind ($500).

PRE-FLOP
Dreamclown bets $750, KidPoker bets $1,000, Dreamclown calls $500.

FLOP [board cards JD,8H,AC ]
KidPoker bets $500, Dreamclown calls $500.

TURN [board cards JD,8H,AC,4H ]
KidPoker checks, Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker calls $1,000.

RIVER [board cards JD,8H,AC,4H,5S ]
KidPoker checks, Dreamclown checks.

SHOWDOWN
KidPoker shows [ JC,KC ]
Dreamclown mucks cards [ 10H,QS ]
KidPoker wins $5,999.
SUMMARY
Dealer: Dreamclown
Pot: $6,000, (including rake: $1)
KidPoker, bets $3,000, collects $5,999, net $2,999
Dreamclown, loses $3,000

Re: several hands from the match
 

even taken out of context of the entire match, some of those hands are just ugly.

Re: Negreanu vs Dreamclown match
 

Just because you don't care doesn't mean many others don't. I think this type of thread appeals to those that play very high limit shorthanded as well as those that are aspiring to that, and even those that have no intention of ever playing 500-1000, but are simply curious.

It's seems to me a thread where two top level players are sharing thoughts and hands about the biggest game of the internet, we all just might learn something.

Re: Negreanu vs Dreamclown match
 

LOL@eugeneel "DN is playing at the 10/20 level"? I think you need lay off the crack.

Re: Negreanu vs Dreamclown match
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just because you don't care doesn't mean many others don't. I think this type of thread appeals to those that play very high limit shorthanded as well as those that are aspiring to that, and even those that have no intention of ever playing 500-1000, but are simply curious.

It's seems to me a thread where two top level players are sharing thoughts and hands about the biggest game of the internet, we all just might learn something.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, i didnt realize this was gonna be a discussion of hands as the initial post did not indicate this at all. it appeared to be just another summary of all the bs thats goin on and more slinging of insults.

i wouldnt have been harsh if his post was, "hi, lets discuss some hands from our match." rather than, "hi, dn sucks donkey balls and if you dont know why you suck too."

Re: Negreanu vs Dreamclown match
 

I didn't watch the match, but I've read the thread about it in the NVG forum.

What can you say about your preflop strategy others have mentioned where you always raise your button and never fold your blind and almost never reraise preflop? Can your call from the blind with 72o really be optimal?

Re: Negreanu vs Dreamclown match
 

Yeah, he misses a lot of bets. This hand disgusted me:


Texas Hold'em $500-$1000 (real money), #1,644,004,761
Table Dreamclown's HE, 28 Dec 2005 11:29 PM ET
Seat 3: KidPoker ($108,113.75 in chips)
Seat 8: Dreamclown ($41,628.75 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
Dreamclown posts blind ($250), KidPoker posts blind ($500).

PRE-FLOP
Dreamclown bets $750, KidPoker bets $1,000, Dreamclown calls $500.

FLOP [board cards JD,8H,AC ]
KidPoker bets $500, Dreamclown calls $500.

TURN [board cards JD,8H,AC,4H ]
KidPoker checks, Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker calls $1,000.

RIVER [board cards JD,8H,AC,4H,5S ]
KidPoker checks, Dreamclown checks.

SHOWDOWN
KidPoker shows [ JC,KC ]
Dreamclown mucks cards [ 10H,QS ]
KidPoker wins $5,999.
SUMMARY
Dealer: Dreamclown
Pot: $6,000, (including rake: $1)
KidPoker, bets $3,000, collects $5,999, net $2,999
Dreamclown, loses $3,000

[/ QUOTE ]


why? seems reasonable to me

Re: Negreanu vs Dreamclown match
 

"I didn't watch the match, but I've read the thread about it in the NVG forum.

What can you say about your preflop strategy others have mentioned where you always raise your button and never fold your blind and almost never reraise preflop? Can your call from the blind with 72o really be optimal? "

This is not my strategy but my friend's who is usually playing the bigger matches on the dreamclown account. I, however, am starting to slowly adapt the same preflop strategy. It seems as it's effective as long as you are a better postflop player than your opponent. If you are on the same skill lever as the opponent then you should not be playing him to begin with.

Anyway, my personal preference is very loose. I will play a hand like 47o, any 2 suited cards, and any 10x and up. I may play a few less hands if my opponent is reraising a lot.

I will also re reraise in position vs some opponents who 3bet me often or some opponents that will put in 5 bets there with a hand like AJ.

When I 4bet in position, about 80-85 % of the time I will have a premium hand like 88+ or KQs or better. The other times I may have something like 108s.

It is very possible that I may adjust and play preflop the same way as dreamclown very soon

-E

Re: Negreanu vs Dreamclown match
 

another thing I thought of...

Even if calling with 72 off is a few % -ev against a given opponent, there are these factors to consider.

1) This style is more tilt inducing than any other style IMO.

2) This style keeps the outmatched opponent in the game longer and keeps him coming back later. It crates an image of the player who is using it as a maniac even if the player plays 100% perfect postflop and will result in opponet calling down much more with ace/king high etc.

Re: Negreanu vs Dreamclown match
 

[ QUOTE ]

why? seems reasonable to me

[/ QUOTE ]

Nowhere in this hand should it say "KidPoker checks".

Re: Negreanu vs Dreamclown match
 

I was surprised you guys were paying him off liberally when he went into that transparent "check the flop with nuts" routine.

Edit: like this one. I hated that river bet.


Texas Hold'em $500-$1000 (real money), #1,643,854,504
Table Dreamclown's HE, 28 Dec 2005 10:48 PM ET
Seat 3: KidPoker ($91,660.25 in chips)
Seat 8: Dreamclown ($58,168.75 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
Dreamclown posts blind ($250), KidPoker posts blind ($500).

PRE-FLOP
Dreamclown bets $750, KidPoker bets $1,000, Dreamclown calls $500.

FLOP [board cards KH,QH,4D ]
KidPoker checks, Dreamclown checks.

TURN [board cards KH,QH,4D,KD ]
KidPoker checks, Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker calls $1,000.

RIVER [board cards KH,QH,4D,KD,9C ]
KidPoker checks, Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker bets $2,000, Dreamclown folds.

SHOWDOWN
KidPoker wins $7,999.

Re: Negreanu vs Dreamclown match
 

I dunno what he had here. But if it was something like TT then it wasn't a bad play.

-E