Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

This is an attempt at a comprehensive guide for determining the nuts in Hold 'Em (and I believe high hand in Omaha but Omaha is not my game):

Following the checklist below will prevent you from thinking that you have the nuts when you do not. It does not take into consideration pollution of the nuts, e.g. a straight flush is possible from looking at the board, but you have one of the cards needed for it. While an S.F. would be the nuts, you know no one else could have it and something else is the nuts. If the criteria are not met for one question, go to the next question to find the nuts.

Does the board contain three cards of one suit? If yes, can you add four to the lowest card of the suit, and reach the two higher cards of that suit on the board? If so a straight flush is possible. For this equation, there are fourteen cards in the deck because A is low or high. J is eleven, Queen is twelve, King is thirteen and ace is One and Fourteen. So if the board has A 3 5 you can add 4 to A, hit the three and reach the 5 and a SF is possible. If the board has three cards of a suit all in a row (e.g. 89T) two S.F.s are possible, the nuts being the higher S.F.

If no S.F. is possible, is the board paired? If so Quads are possible. So are full houses. The nut full house would be made up of a set of the top card on the board.

If the board is not paired, are there at least three cards of a single suit on the board? A flush is possible. The nuts is the flush with the highest card of the suit not on the board. (e.g. the board has AKQ of one suit, the nuts is the J and another card of the suit).

Can you add four to the bottom card, and hit at least two cards along the way? A straight is possible. A straight is also possible if there are three cards in a row, the nut straight being the higher straight.

Absent straights, flushes, quads, full houses and the like, the nuts is three of a kind of the highest card on the board.

Two pair, pairs, even overpairs are NEVER the nuts.

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is an attempt at a comprehensive guide for determining the nuts in Hold 'Em (and I believe high hand in Omaha but Omaha is not my game):

Following the checklist below will prevent you from thinking that you have the nuts when you do not. It does not take into consideration pollution of the nuts, e.g. a straight flush is possible from looking at the board, but you have one of the cards needed for it. While an S.F. would be the nuts, you know no one else could have it and something else is the nuts. If the criteria are not met for one question, go to the next question to find the nuts.

Does the board contain three cards of one suit? If yes, can you add four to the lowest card of the suit, and reach the two higher cards of that suit on the board? If so a straight flush is possible. For this equation, there are fourteen cards in the deck because A is low or high. J is eleven, Queen is twelve, King is thirteen and ace is One and Fourteen. So if the board has A 3 5 you can add 4 to A, hit the three and reach the 5 and a SF is possible. If the board has three cards of a suit all in a row (e.g. 89T) two S.F.s are possible, the nuts being the higher S.F.

If no S.F. is possible, is the board paired? If so Quads are possible. So are full houses. The nut full house would be made up of a set of the top card on the board.

If the board is not paired, are there at least three cards of a single suit on the board? A flush is possible. The nuts is the flush with the highest card of the suit not on the board. (e.g. the board has AKQ of one suit, the nuts is the J and another card of the suit).

Can you add four to the bottom card, and hit at least two cards along the way? A straight is possible. A straight is also possible if there are three cards in a row, the nut straight being the higher straight.

Absent straights, flushes, quads, full houses and the like, the nuts is three of a kind of the highest card on the board.

Two pair, pairs, even overpairs are NEVER the nuts.

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Mr. Sledgehammer, meet Mr. Fly.

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

Can you go over that part about over-pairs again. Thanks

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

[img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

Sure, but first can you go over the part about how it's never a good idea to review the basics and how it's a bad idea to post anything that might be of use to a newbie and the part about not being a sarcastic blankity blank?

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

there's a beginner's forum.

and who if you are having trouble recognizing the nuts, I think poker isn't a game for you. (not you personally, but anyone who is having this issue)

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

In the heat of battle with your time clock ticking down with your stack on the line, it's possible for a non-beginner to miss the nuts. This is a comprehensive way to think about it. If you're telling me that you've NEVER looked at a board and not recognized a str8 possibility, or that you've never unthinkingly pushed with the ace-high flush without even considering the SF, then you're deluding either me or yourself.

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

youve been around for longer than me, so i'll defer to your wisdom.

but ive never, with an ace high flush on a non paired, non fourstraight board, worried about losing all my chips. i just worry about the best way to get my opponents chips in the pot.

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

learning to read the board right away just comes from lots of repetition. it's not something you read a guide to do.

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

[ QUOTE ]
In the heat of battle with your time clock ticking down with your stack on the line, it's possible for a non-beginner to miss the nuts. This is a comprehensive way to think about it. If you're telling me that you've NEVER looked at a board and not recognized a str8 possibility, or that you've never unthinkingly pushed with the ace-high flush without even considering the SF, then you're deluding either me or yourself.

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I never consider the straight flush w/ three of a suit on board if I have the nut flush. Maybe that's a leak.

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

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I never consider the straight flush w/ three of a suit on board if I have the nut flush. Maybe that's a leak.

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I think Ed Miller would call it a "huge leak".

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

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learning to read the board right away just comes from lots of repetition. it's not something you read a guide to do.

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Ding ding ding!

Beenben, I think your comprehensive checklist here will be an enormous help in letting every nervous player acting in the heat of passion determine what the exact "nuts" are before making his bet. Thank you for the excellent post!

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

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or that you've never unthinkingly pushed with the ace-high flush without even considering the SF

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What does it mean if I *recognize* the SF and just don't care enough to *consider* it?

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

Well, at least somebody liked it.

I think by ExitOnly's analysis, no one should ever read 2+2 or books, because the only way to learn is to play play play.

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

Great post - hopefully it will help me avoid puting my stack in with a 4 card straight (something I've done twice, glub glub).

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

so this was a serious post?

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

I honestly can say that has never happened.

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

This seems very complicated. On each street I am thinking "What could villian have that I am ahead of" and "what could villian have that I am behind?". If there is nothing possible I am behind to, I have the nuts.

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

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This seems very complicated. On each street I am thinking "What could villian have that I am ahead of" and "what could villian have that I am behind?". If there is nothing possible I am behind to, I have the nuts.

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See, I take it one step further. We called it "millenium poker" in houston. You put your opponent on a hand you can beat and raise/call. Worrying about previous action on previous rounds is too complicated.

craig

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

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I never consider the straight flush w/ three of a suit on board if I have the nut flush. Maybe that's a leak.

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I think Ed Miller would call it a "huge leak".

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Actually I doubt he would call it a "huge leak" at all; really how often does it happen, how many BB can such a situation cause you to lose in the long run?

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

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I never consider the straight flush w/ three of a suit on board if I have the nut flush. Maybe that's a leak.

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I think Ed Miller would call it a "huge leak".

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It's an incredibly tiny leak. Ed has posted before saying the worst leaks are those where you have VERY frequent opportunities to make the same mistake.

Getting beat by a straight flush is hardly something that occurs frequently, even in omaha.

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

What ever happened to learning how to read the [censored] board? Do we need a chart for everything now?

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

I'm a goofy goober.

http://www.cinemablend.com/images/re...1102548993.jpg

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

Maybe 2+2 needs to publish a book called "How to Read the Board for Advanced Players"

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

Not putting in several raises with a nut flush because you are worried about a straight flush would be a huge leak. I might not go to the felt, but It would take 7 or 8 raises (limit) before I would even think about calling. Straight flushes are so rare that you will cost yourself more by being afraid of them than you will by putting lots of money in the pot on the rare occasions when they are really there. Most of the time you will be shown a 2nd nut (or worse) flush.

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

That's about how I play it too. No use in worrying about the straight flush for a while.

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

Why's everyone ragging on this post? Oh yeah it's probably the same people that say "OMFG POKER IS RIGGED!!1111ONE!! This post is better than 90% of the posts in here.

Many poker books have this information, and I KNOW that most people have misread the board in some form or another in terms of what they're beating and what they're not

Good work on the post!

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

No offense to the guy who posted this, but his method sounds more like an algorithm for programming a computer poker game than something that is useful to a human player.

"Does the board contain three cards of one suit? If yes, can you add four to the lowest card of the suit, and reach the two higher cards of that suit on the board? If so a straight flush is possible. For this equation, there are fourteen cards in the deck because A is low or high. J is eleven, Queen is twelve, King is thirteen and ace is One and Fourteen. So if the board has A 3 5 you can add 4 to A, hit the three and reach the 5 and a SF is possible. If the board has three cards of a suit all in a row (e.g. 89T) two S.F.s are possible, the nuts being the higher S.F."

Come on, sh-t like that is only going to serve to confuse a new player. This is hold 'em -- people don't make straight flushes. All you need to know is that if there's three or more of a suit on board, a flush is possible. If the board is paired, anything from 3 of a kind to quads is possible. Do you really need a mathematical forumula to determine whether or not a straight can be made? Wait, how much is a king worth!?!? Come on. Someone who has never played poker before will be able to read the board and recognize possibilities after a half hour of play.

This is overkill.

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

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his method sounds more like an algorithm for programming a computer poker game

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It's not very efficient, although it is fairly robust.

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

Worrying about losing to a straight flush on a 3 flush board when you have an ace high flush is like worrying about losing to KK when you have AA on a KAK flop, it's asinine.

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

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Not putting in several raises with a nut flush because you are worried about a straight flush would be a huge leak. I might not go to the felt, but It would take 7 or 8 raises (limit) before I would even think about calling. Straight flushes are so rare that you will cost yourself more by being afraid of them than you will by putting lots of money in the pot on the rare occasions when they are really there. Most of the time you will be shown a 2nd nut (or worse) flush.

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If you have the nut flush and a strait flush is possible: YOU DON'T HAVE THE NUTS!

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

Is queen high ever the nuts?

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

You ignored recognizing when the nuts are on the board, which seems to be a very common mistake.

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

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You ignored recognizing when the nuts are on the board, which seems to be a very common mistake.

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??
The nuts are never on the board, unless it's a broadway rainbow straight, royal flush, four of a kind + an ace, or four aces + a king.

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

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You ignored recognizing when the nuts are on the board, which seems to be a very common mistake.

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??
The nuts are never on the board, unless it's a broadway rainbow straight, royal flush, four of a kind + an ace, or four aces + a king.

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I've seen so many folds with broadway on the board, and a few with quads+tk. I've only seen a royal on the board once, and nobody was dumb enough to fold. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

I think I go through this process intuitively. Anyway, you left out straights and you ignored straight-flushes that come up on boards like 2c8c9cQc2d (you started from the lowest card on board, in reality, the question should be "Are there 3 cards of the same suit within 4 ranks of each other" instead of the thing about adding 4 to the lowest).

Also, your full house thing is wrong if the pair is the card of highest rank on board, like on the board AA347, the nut full house is A7, not 77.

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

I look forward to your book. Will you be coming up with a simple way to memorize hand rankings?

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

Consider this one:

What's the lowest possible nuts in holdem, after all the board cards are dealt?

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

A set?

Re: Squirrel Post- don\'t miss the Nuts
 

a set of what?