Re: Is Nothing Possible?
 

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I question whether nothing is even possible and this is why I'm agnostic and recognize the possibility of a creator or even an omnipotent God. I just cannot imagine the reality of NOTHING, because even the reality of nothing is something!

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Seems like at lesat a couple leaps in logic here.Suppose it is impossible for us to actually conceive of *nothing* or to conceive of there being nothing. It doesn't follow that it is impossible for there to be nothing.

Suppose it is a necessary truth that there has to be something (i.e., suppose now that it is, in fact, impossible for there to be nothing). Why does this mean that there must be a god?

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RJT

The leaps are yours. Lestat does not attempt to nor does draw any conclusions. Stat, merely presents the issue for discussion.

Your points are of course correct.

RJT

Re: Is Nothing Possible?
 

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You misunderstand science completely. Science seeks testable explations for phenomena. It is the domain of religion to hold untestable "facts" as being the truth of how things are.


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Au contraire, mon ami. I understand the pursuit of scientists for explanations/answers/solutions.

I was making light of scientists and non-degreed folks who mock religious beliefs simply on the basis of non-provability. The can’t accept my acceptance of that which I can’t demonstrate to their satisfaction. I was pointing to their fallibility. I admire their knowledge and their pursuits. I benefit directly from them. They ask for my faith in them and all I ask is respect for and acceptance of my faith in God.

Re: Is Nothing Possible?
 

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Man also continually discovers explanations for, and eventually understands, things previously unexplainable and poorly understood. That's the fun part, the part which many so casually dismiss as the "unknowable workings of the mind of God" or some such.


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First, please read my reply to Trantor.

I accept and can understand the enjoyment of discovery. It’s the proverbial pot at the end of the rainbow. And every time that discovery is made I’ll congratulate whoever found it. However, I’ve yet to see the scientist who has the proof of whatever, that will cause me to change my belief in God.

I’ve known scientists and doctors who believe in God. They’ve made cases for the co-existence of the Theory of Creation and the Theory of Evolution. Personally, I agree with them and don’t think they are mutually exclusive.

Re: Is Nothing Possible?
 

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I was making light of scientists and non-degreed folks who mock religious beliefs simply on the basis of non-provability.

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no-one mocks religous belief because they cannot be proven.

chez

Re: Is Nothing Possible?
 

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no-one mocks religous belief because they cannot be proven.
chez

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I've not noticed that.

Re: Is Nothing Possible?
 

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I accept and can understand the enjoyment of discovery. It’s the proverbial pot at the end of the rainbow. And every time that discovery is made I’ll congratulate whoever found it. However, I’ve yet to see the scientist who has the proof of whatever, that will cause me to change my belief in God.

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I personally don't know any reputable scientists who would try. The best I can say about my own beliefs is that the God Hypothesis does not appear to be necessary to explain any observable phenomena.

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I’ve known scientists and doctors who believe in God. They’ve made cases for the co-existence of the Theory of Creation and the Theory of Evolution. Personally, I agree with them and don’t think they are mutually exclusive.

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I know plenty of doctors, scientists, economists, etc. who believe in God and see no conflict between some idea of a Created Universe and the scientific theory of evolution. I have no problem with them, and no beef with their ideas or beliefs.

What I dislike is the idea that because something inexplicable or poorly understood is discovered, the devout get a free pass for fingerpointing at science and scoffing, "See? You don't know everything. There are things we can't understand, aren't meant to understand, etc. Therefore God did it." This puts science in the uncomfortable position of appearing to attack religion, because as scientists we take away from religion that which it held special prominence over, the unknown, the inexplicable, the poorly understood.

And what I really dislike is the idea that the God Hypothesis can be yanked out of the closet and used as a panacea to fix the gaps in science. A God of the Gaps should be downright embarassing to the faithful, yet it seems to be gaining strength due to the sophistry of pseudo scientists and charlatans like Behe and Dembski, Gish and Gitt.

Re: Is Nothing Possible?
 

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no-one mocks religous belief because they cannot be proven.
chez

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I've not noticed that.

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look again, I think you've misunderstood. Give some examples if you like.

chez

Re: Is Nothing Possible?
 

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I can't imagine nothing - the nothing before the universe was born -if it didn't always exists. I decide on God and go from there.



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Translation: Humans have no experience with "nothing" before the universe, so I choose to invent a Santa Claus-like figure to conveniently answer all these unknowns.


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This is poor logic. Nothing may not exist, but eternity certainly does. Humans haven't evolved enough to be able to comprehend eternity or nothing or infinity, but most likely all three of those concepts are a living reality. In fact, it seems to me that these three things are the foundation of existence (and non-existence). So if such equisitely simple yet completely mysterious concepts are a living reality then why can't God be a living reality?

Re: Is Nothing Possible?
 

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This is poor logic. Nothing may not exist, but eternity certainly does. Humans haven't evolved enough to be able to comprehend eternity or nothing or infinity, but most likely all three of those concepts are a living reality. In fact, it seems to me that these three things are the foundation of existence (and non-existence). So if such equisitely simple yet completely mysterious concepts are a living reality then why can't God be a living reality?

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Nice paragraph. Your first sentence is a good topic sentence for the statements to follow.

Re: Is Nothing Possible?
 

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This is poor logic. Nothing may not exist, but eternity certainly does. Humans haven't evolved enough to be able to comprehend eternity or nothing or infinity, but most likely all three of those concepts are a living reality. In fact, it seems to me that these three things are the foundation of existence (and non-existence). So if such equisitely simple yet completely mysterious concepts are a living reality then why can't God be a living reality?

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Eternity doesn't exist, since time is just a dimension in our universe.