Questionable plays on all streets..
 

BB in this hand is 55/18/1.6
No stats on UTG but he Stop N Go's a lot with 2nd and 3rd pair, checkraises a lot with any piece of the board or and draw.
MP is 62/2/.4
Button is 48/8/1.4
No reads on the SB



Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, Hero calls, Button calls, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, UTG calls, MP calls, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls.

An ok limp after 2 limpers? Or is this a raise/fold?

Flop: (12 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, MP calls, Hero calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.

My plan here was to raise the turn on any non A-K and make it more expensive for the BB to chase overs. Should I have raised this flop? UTG was capable of raisng with any piece of the board.

Turn: (11 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

OK, so the cold call by the BB really scared me. My TPGK doesn't look so good anymore.

River: (17 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, UTG calls.

I figured chances were good I was still ahead of UTG here as his stop N go didn't realy mean much. He had been doing this a lot with any piece. I raised the river hoping I could fold out a better hand held by the BB.

If UTG doesnt bet out on this river is checking correct?

Final Pot: 21 BB

Re: Questionable plays on all streets..
 

I hate preflop. Fold this crap hand. The only play you made that I like was the turn raise.

Re: Questionable plays on all streets..
 

you overplayed your hand significantly. fold pf. why are you raising the river?

Re: Questionable plays on all streets..
 

I can't pick out the worst part of the hand, but if you forced me to do so, it would be the river. BB isn't folding any better hand, UTG may have you beat, may fold to a raise if you are good, and may also 3bet when you're not. Just the worst thing you could do here.

Re: Questionable plays on all streets..
 

I think every street is fine except for the river. Pre flop is fine. I like the turn raise. I doubt a calling station is folding a better hand on the river here. You might get a worse hand to fold or if he made a flush he gets to raise. I see the logic in your river play but makes more sense if BB was a tight passive player where you can be more sure of your read.

Re: Questionable plays on all streets..
 

Ok so no one likes my pf play, thats fine, I wasn't sure IF I liked it or not either.

Given that I am in the hand would you 3 bet the flop?


BUt did you read the description of UTG?

He Stop N Go's with any piece of the board or draw, check raises with any piece or draw and is generally a very bad player.

I put the BB on over's as he did not 3 bet on the flop. With his stats wouldn't someone with an overpair 3 bet this flop?

UTG's turn bet didn't mean much as my description of him states so why is a raise here bad If I am putting the BB on over's?

[ QUOTE ]
can't pick out the worst part of the hand, but if you forced me to do so, it would be the river. BB isn't folding any better hand

[/ QUOTE ]

I kinda think that the river was the best play I made in the hand. BB called the turn raise cold so we can assume he has an overpair.

The pot is large and Raising the river makes him coldcall 2 again and may make him fold a better hand.

An overpair isn't folding for 1 bet on the river but will he call 2?

I had no intentions of betting the river after the BB cold called 2 but I saw an opportunity to possibly fold out a better hand after UTG bet the river agin.

Would you call 2 cold on the turn and river with an overpair on this board?

Re: Questionable plays on all streets..
 

[ QUOTE ]
I doubt a calling station is folding a better hand on the river here

[/ QUOTE ]

his stats are 55/18/1.6

This doesnt make him a calling station to me, not super agressive but not pasive either.

What do others think?

Results:
 

UTG shows 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

MHIG

Re: Results:
 

I wouldn't take that as a good sign other than you won some money with a crappy hand. Q10o is fold material every time unless stealing. Given that you did play Q10o, I think you played it poorly.

Re: Results:
 

[ QUOTE ]
Given that you did play Q10o, I think you played it poorly

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you explain to me how I played it poorly besides pf, I guess an arguement could also be made for raisng the flop here.

Saying it was played poorly really doesn't say anyhting at all unless you explain your point.

I have Top Pair Good kicker in a large pot against a pf raiser who hasn't shown any sign that he likes his hand and he has shown no strength whatsoever. The only player who has shown any sign that he likes his hand is an idiot

I am raising a donk who will Stop N GO with any draw or any pair on every street.

I'm all for critisism on my play but saying you played it bad does absolutely nothing for expolaing how

Re: Questionable plays on all streets..
 

Preflop is fine and not worth talking about. I would've 3 bet the flop and gone from there. I hate the river raise. Based on BB's stats and the fact he's made it to the river means there's practically no chance he's folding a better hand.

Re: Questionable plays on all streets..
 

Explain why you think limping with Q10o is a good move. It is a LOSING hand. It is NOT suited. Almost anyone playing a Q has you DOMINATED. I can't believe people are saying limping with this crap is a smart play.

Re: Questionable plays on all streets..
 

[ QUOTE ]
Almost anyone playing a Q has you DOMINATED. .

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at the stats of the players involved in the hand to see why you're wrong. Playing QTo here is neither a good or bad move. It's just not worth talking about.

Re: Questionable plays on all streets..
 

The whole basis of this hand is the fact that he IS playing Q10o. If you are playing A10 you feel a lot better about 3-betting this flop. Please explain how limping Q10o is gonna be a good move over the next 100k hands. In my database, 452 occurences is losing (.09)Bb/hand. This is a tiny sample obviously, but I provoke you to prove how Q10o is a winner.

Re: Questionable plays on all streets..
 

[ QUOTE ]
Explain why you think limping with Q10o is a good move. It is a LOSING hand. It is NOT suited. Almost anyone playing a Q has you DOMINATED. I can't believe people are saying limping with this crap is a smart play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes against any Tags I would most likely be dominated. However my table is not full of tags. It is full of lose players

An arguement could be made for not playing this pf however with the loose players in the hand is this an ok limp or not from the cutoff? What about the button?

Besides the pf play waht else don't you like about this hand?

Re: Questionable plays on all streets..
 

Have you looked at the players in the hand?

Re: Questionable plays on all streets..
 

I don't like your river raise. I think if I plan to seriously play this hand(thus plan to see a showdown) I will 3-bet this flop.

Re: Questionable plays on all streets..
 

Ok so no one likes the river raise. I guess the question is how many of you are calling two cold on the turn and two cold on the river in a multiway pot with an overpair here?

I have just started getting into SH and when I see an agression factor of 1.6 and a pf raise of 18% this doesn't come across as calling station material to me.

How different is a calling station between SH and full ring games?

Re: Questionable plays on all streets..
 

I play full ring in tournaments only. Sometimes I will play the jackpot tables at Party, but for the main part I can't compare full to SH. The reason a hand like Q10 plays so poorly in SH is that you want to see a showdown with a 1 pair often in SH &amp; a Q kicker just plain sucks, which I imagine is even more true in a full game, though I wouldnt expect a single pair of 10's to win many pots in a 9 or 10 hand game.

Re: Questionable plays on all streets..
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok so no one likes the river raise. I guess the question is how many of you are calling two cold on the turn and two cold on the river in a multiway pot with an overpair here?

I have just started getting into SH and when I see an agression factor of 1.6 and a pf raise of 18% this doesn't come across as calling station material to me.

How different is a calling station between SH and full ring games?

[/ QUOTE ]

55 vpip with 1.6 AF is not a calling station which means that he very likely has 2 overs that he couldn't get away from. He would have almost certainly 3 bet the flop with an overpair if he had it.

Re: Questionable plays on all streets..
 

[ QUOTE ]
his stats are 55/18/1.6

This doesnt make him a calling station to me, not super agressive but not pasive either.

What do others think?

[/ QUOTE ]

A guy that plays over half his hands is not usuall going to fold and over pair or two pair after the flop either.

Re: Questionable plays on all streets..
 

[ QUOTE ]
55 vpip with 1.6 AF is not a calling station which means that he very likely has 2 overs that he couldn't get away from. He would have almost certainly 3 bet the flop with an overpair if he had it.



[/ QUOTE ]

That was my thinking as well and I said that in an earlier reply. If that is the case then why does every one hate the river raise?

Re: Questionable plays on all streets..
 

You can't expect to post results then get unbiased answers to questions about a river raise.

Re: Questionable plays on all streets..
 

I think pre-flop is very close but good.

I think your flop/turn play isnt bad, but in this case, 3-betting would be better. You can protect agaisnt sb, button and possibly bb. I think the time to wait for the turn is when you can't face the field with enough bets to give them odds to fold overs in a big pot. This time you can.

I think your river play is not near as bad as some in this thread suggest, bb does have a very small chance of folding something better (unless you'd like to add something to your read), adn the pot is big. But the chance isnt good enough, and despite your read of utg, you might be making the fold worse/get 3-bet or called from better Ultimate River Mistake here. Calling is better.

Re: Questionable plays on all streets..
 

Even though you were good here vs his 77, I don't think you're good here often enough to warrant a raise, and you're opening yourself to a 3 bet.