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ddubois 12-18-2005 02:10 AM

99 OOP
BB has TAG stats. I have a nagging feeling this hand is uninteresting and I should know what to do, but I didn't, and this bothers me. I almost never take this line.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, MP calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP folds.

Turn: (4 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

River: (6 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7 BB

In similar situations I would check call to induce busted draws to bluff, but this time with 3 overs I couldn't justify there being enough ways for him to have a busted draw relative to the number of ways I'm behind.

ArturiusX 12-18-2005 02:13 AM

Re: 99 OOP
This is pretty bad. I'd still bet the river, I think check folding is the worst here.

So many draws play this extactly the same way.

ddubois 12-18-2005 04:56 AM

Re: 99 OOP
I don't follow. Your post seems like you are advocating betting the river in order to fold out busted draws. It should go without saying that is not terribly useful.

Do you think better hands will fold, or there is value in it?

Jdanz 12-18-2005 05:09 AM

Re: 99 OOP
i hate betting the river. calling the river depends on the opponent. I'm pretty weak tight though and i give it up on the turn. Too many hands that i'm not ahead of or only a little bit ahead of.

If villian takes the free card i propbably pay off on the river.

that said, i'm not very good. I would like to hear more from others as i find this to be an interesting uninteresting hand.

(anyone c/f the flop?)

wackjob 12-18-2005 05:31 AM

Re: 99 OOP
c/f turn for me.

StellarWind 12-18-2005 05:34 AM

Re: 99 OOP
You should probably checkfold the turn. I'm serious, add it up:

1. He called the flop with one of the multiple straight draws. Almost all straight draws and all of the decent straight draws just moved ahead of you. You lose.

2. He called the flop with an ace or a ten. You lose.

3. He called preflop and flop with a flush draw. So what is his hand? A and J beat you, while T97 are tied up. KQ beats you while Kx and Qx have 14 outs each. The 8 also creates extra outs while many of the remaining garbage draw, in addition to having their eight flush outs, might not have called preflop. You lose somehow most of the time.

4. He called with a seven with a live player behind him. Quite a poor play and most logical kickers are either two pair now or have additional outs to a straight beyond the standard five. He isn't that likely to have this hand and you lose quite a bit.

5. He called with a small pocket with a live player behind him. He's an idiot and when a TAG idiot does play this flop he usually raises instead of calling anyway. You win but he doesn't have this hand.

It's only 4 BB and betting the turn sort of commits you to showing down your hand when a blank comes. It's just too much money for such a poor situation.

BTW, you should have provided a read for MP. It affects the TAG's decisions.

ddubois 12-18-2005 05:41 AM

Re: 99 OOP
Well, you say "give up", but I really don't want to fold on the turn since I have a gutshot.

Another nice thing about my hand, albeit minor, is that I don't have to worry about catching a set that makes a flush.

ddubois 12-18-2005 05:54 AM

Re: 99 OOP
Excellent analysis as usual. I was intending to append a listing of possible holdings in the manner you did, but I was thinking more about the river than the turn, and I probably would not have been as thorough. I agree worse made hands are highly improbable for a TAG, and that there are very few ways to make plausible flush draws that I am ahead of. I suppose in the moment I no explicit thoughts beyond: "I have a pair and 6 outs when behind", and a nigling subconscious feeling that my fold equity was zilch.

ArturiusX 12-18-2005 06:28 AM

Re: 99 OOP
Woops, I thought we had a flush draw on the turn too.

Just fold the turn.

flawless_victory 12-18-2005 06:54 AM

Re: 99 OOP
i wouldve lost $20 less than u.

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