Appearing Weak
 

I was running really bad two days ago and had a horrendous image at this one table in particular. The fish were getting out of my way and TAGs were iso-raising me. I think it was backwards day or some sh!t. Needless to say, I was missing flops and not faring well.

This one hand stood out in particular. I raised from MP, and it was folded around to a "TAG" (25/17/2.2) who 3-bet me with J8o from the BB. He flopped an 8 and rivered a Jack to beat my TT.

Anyway, here's the question:

Considering my image and the fact that I was "runover-able", is his preflop play EVER correct?

Re: Appearing Weak
 

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Re: Appearing Weak
 

of course not. Being oop and 3-betting with a marginal hand like J8o is a pretty bad play. When you say horrendous image though, do you mean like maniacal? or like so weak-tight and folding everything. Because if you were so weak-tight that you were folding most flops u got 3-bet before the flop, then reraising with any 2 cards against you might have made sense. On the other hand, if u were playing aggressive but missed every board and looked like you were a maniac, then everyone else should actually be picking better spots to isolate you, not getting into raising wars with trash hands.

Re: Appearing Weak
 

You capped his 3-bet PF right?

Re: Appearing Weak
 

Of course. I can't think of too many situations where I don't cap with TT.

Re: Appearing Weak
 

You mean in general, or in position?

Re: Appearing Weak
 

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Because if you were so weak-tight that you were folding most flops u got 3-bet before the flop, then reraising with any 2 cards against you might have made sense.

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This is exactly what I wanted to hear someone say.

If you raise QJ in the CO and a TAG button 3-bets you, c/folding a 7 high flop isn't terrible. You don't have 6 clean outs all that often, so the best EV play is usually folding even with the pot laying 7:1 or 8:1. Then, 2 hands after that you raise A9s, get cold-called by a TAG and the flop comes QJ3 with none of your suit. You bet, he raises, you fold. Sometimes you actually take a stand against your opponent, and this time he has top two or whatever. Blah, Blah, Blah....we've all been there.

So, this guy with the J8o sees that happen a few times and (what I believe is incorrectly) assumes that I'm weak-tight and A) can't possibly start with a pair and B) will continue to keep missing flops because I'm "running bad".

I think his logic is way off base and highly flawed, but you seem to understand it. Thoughts?

Re: Appearing Weak
 

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You mean in general, or in position?

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In general.

Re: Appearing Weak
 

If you approach it that way then it's a math problem. You calling PF and check/folding on x% of flops makes his 3-bet immediately profitable with any two. With a hand as bad as J8o I'm sure x would have you making some ridiculous folds that no one would ever make, so 3-betting J8o in that spot is never profitable. However, if you are playing a misprogrammed bot who raises PF every hand, never caps a 3-bet, and check/folds 80% of his hands on the flop, then obviously you should 3-bet any two against him if you are HU after his raise (either because you're playing HU or it's folded to you) and you will show an immediate profit by doing so.

Re: Appearing Weak
 

Very interesting.

Let's say people notice that you've bricked a few hands, and after you raise with QJs, you get 3-bet by a blind again, and this time you cap (which I've done before in this spot).

I know people justify that cap as shania, or as representing something better, or as they may have the best hand. Would you ever consider that abnormal cap to be a result of tilt? It's still possible that our opponents are just getting big hands, no?