% of time to see the flop
 

Hi, I recently started playing poker and have read SSH and ITH. Let's take the preplop recommendations in SSH.
SSH understandably recommends pretty tight play pre-flop. To play poker correctly as I understand it, the percent of hands where I see the flop will be quite small. If I follow SSH's recommendations for loose games precisely, what percent of the time should I be seeing the flop? I could calculate this, but curious if someone has already done it.

Re: % of time to see the flop
 

If you are going to use a pre-flop chart from SSHE for on-line play you should probably use the tight games one as opposed to the loose one until the table(s) has proven otherwise. For live play this would probably be prudent as well. I don't find either of them very "tight" as the suggestion to play any pocket pair or Ace suited in any position shouldn't be considered very tight. The loose table recommendations are quite "loose" in my opinion with suggestions such as J8 suited, Q9 suited from later positions.

In terms of flop percentages I think that most winning (on-line) players are in the 17-25 percent range (at levels above $1/2). When starting out you'll more likely be closer to 30% until you start thowing away hands like K 10 off and QJ off etc in your early to middle positions.

If you followed SSHE "tight" table chart (on-line) you would probably be in the 22-27 percent range

If you followed SSHE "loose" table chart (on-line) you would probably be in the 30 + range

my 2 cents

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] busguy

Oh and all the flop percentages given above would be using the stats from the sites as opposed to Poker Tracker or other comparable software.

Re: % of time to see the flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Oh and all the flop percentages given above would be using the stats from the sites as opposed to Poker Tracker or other comparable software.


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What is different between the two sets of stats that makes this distinction important?

Luckydog

Re: % of time to see the flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh and all the flop percentages given above would be using the stats from the sites as opposed to Poker Tracker or other comparable software.


[/ QUOTE ]

What is different between the two sets of stats that makes this distinction important?

Luckydog

[/ QUOTE ]

The stats from the Poker sites, take into account your flop percentages from all positions including the blinds. So to have a 20% flop percentage (from a site) would mean that if you played your Big Blind and Small blind every time you would have folded every hand from every other position (assuming a 10 handed table . . . 2 out of 10 hands played = %20).

Poker Tracker (and others) break up your flop percentages into 3 or 4 different catagories. It gives you flop percentages including the blinds, not including one of the blinds (SB) and not including both of the blinds, etc. The most common Poker Tracker stat mentioned is VP$IP (Voluntarily put money into pot) which is often (for good players) around %16 and does not include the Big Blind (in an un-raised pot).

So when I said above that the Percentages quoted where from the sites I meant that they were TOTALS as opposed to something like VP$IP.

Hope that clarifies

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] busguy

Re: % of time to see the flop
 

Thank you for the explaination.
The timing of this couldn't have been better.

I have been playing at Pacific where stats are not available.
Last night I played at Pardise for the first time. I only played for an hour and a half I think and when I checked my stats they showed me seeing the flop 40% of the time.
I knew I was seeing more than normal but that seemed high. So if I subtract the BB I'm still high but not as bad.

Thanks
Luckydog

Re: % of time to see the flop
 

The % of times you voluntarily put money in the pot should be about 17-19%. If you add in the SB and BB you'll see about 25% percent of the flops. If you're playing in a loose game the %'s can be the slightest bit higher.

Re: % of time to see the flop
 

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Last night I played at Pardise for the first time. I only played for an hour and a half I think and when I checked my stats they showed me seeing the flop 40% of the time.
I knew I was seeing more than normal but that seemed high. So if I subtract the BB I'm still high but not as bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your percentage may be high, but after only an hour and a half it's tough to say. Personally, in a full game, I see 26-27% of the flops over the long term. I'm still trying to tighten up a bit.

However, I do have those nights where the cards are running good, and can be in the 30-35% range. I've also had nights where I'm below 20%. I even had one night where I saw 8% after three hours (very loose game, and very few big blinds that were limped around to me -- but still a hard percentage to attain).

I guess what I'm saying is that statistics as to the number of hands played really doesn't mean very much over 1 or even a few sessions. So, keep with it and keep tracking things.

Otherwise, if you follow the charts in either Ed Miller's book or Lee Jones' you'll be ok. If you want a system that's REALLY easy to memorize, type Hutchinson into google. This system is generally a bit tighter than Jones. It's easy to memorize, and easy to adapt.

It's not perfect -- though I found that the differences between the books were that Hutchinson eliminates some of the drawing hands that beginners often misplay. As you get more comfortable, you can add these, or move on to the charts.

Re: % of time to see the flop
 

I am looking at the tight chart right now and it has you folding 22 to 66 in EP and A-2s to A9s in EP.

Re: % of time to see the flop
 

I honestly RARELY see a "loose" table online. Perhaps for 1 orbit but not for more then that.

As for SSH - I can not understand his charts at all. The what to do with a raise part has me baffeled. If says take out certain hands that are not there to begin with.

Re: % of time to see the flop
 

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I am looking at the tight chart right now and it has you folding 22 to 66 in EP and A-2s to A9s in EP.

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Though I think there is a pretty wide consensus that you can in fact play any pair and Axs UTG up to 3/6 online unless your table is very aggressive.