Why do 2+2ers raise the flop with middle pair?
 

There's a post on the first page right now where the IOP has 9d7d on the button in a unraised multiway pot with a flop Ac9c5h. CO bets, and one poster advised that the OP raise as a "standard" online move.

I didn't reply there because I want to make this question more general: in what situations should I consider raising middle pair on the flop? What am I looking for? I know that pot size, number of players, flop texture, etc. should be the factors that I consider--but what specifically is helpful? More players or less players? A drawish board or a lot of blanks?

And, in general, what is the objective? Am I looking for a free turn card? Should I do it when I have, say, an additional flush draw to add deception to my hand? Is it just because a lot of the time MHIG?

Or am I mistaken in thinking that this is a common move?

John

Re: Why do 2+2ers raise the flop with middle pair?
 

There's a more detailed explanation of this concept in SSHE, but it has to do with "Protecting Your Hand". The raise is based a pot-size. Consider that middle pair, middle kicker is a 5-out drawing hand most of the time, which requires ~8:1 immediate pot odds to continue. If you are getting the odds to play, and your raise will face most or all of the field with calling two bets cold, then you should often raise. Sometimes you will have the best hand, and when you do, you want to ensure that nobody has correct odds to see the turn (this forces your opponents to decide between folding, or calling unprofitably, both of which are good outcomes for you). When you are behind, there are still a number of hands that you would prefer to fold, and could call profitably for one bet, but not two.

I suggest picking up a copy of SSHE, as there are a number of examples that are counterintuitive, with good explanations.

Re: Why do 2+2ers raise the flop with middle pair?
 

I think most good poker players (not only 2+2ers) raise in this spot. The cutoff might be bluffing and the raise may cause weak Ax hands in early or mid pos, weak flush draws and gut shot str8 draws (like 87) to fold. If reraised by EP or bettor you can call and take one card off and hope for a 9 or a 7. If no improvement you could probably fold on turn or calling down if it's not too expensive. The pot has by then grown so big that the price is small to check out one opponent. He could be on a flush draw, a weaker hand than yours or a complete bluff. And you could still improve on the river.

Re: Why do 2+2ers raise the flop with middle pair?
 

Ed Miller elaborates on this move at his website notedpokerauthority.com its in the articles section. i would read all those articles anyhow. I dont think this is a standard move because a set of conditions have to be met but when they are it is really strong.

Re: Why do 2+2ers raise the flop with middle pair?
 

This is generally worse on drawless boards as the bettor more likely has you beaten. In the example given A95 two flush, the bettor is more likely to be betting a draw then on a K83 rainbow flop. Remeber that in the example you're getting 4.5-1 on a raise. These plays don't have to work everytime or even most of the time to make them profitable and correct.

Gonna post osme specific examples.

Re: Why do 2+2ers raise the flop with middle pair?
 

Hero is Big Blind with 8c9c
UTG+1 calls, MP3 Calls, Button raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 Calls.

Flop (8SBs) Tc,8s,4d
UTG+1 checks, MP3 Checks, Button Bets, Hero Raises.

Yes you may be beaten by the button, but there is also a good chance the button has two unpaired high cards and your 8's are good. It will be MUCH easier for your hand to hold up UI if you can eliminate the two limpers.
You're putting in a raise to force UTG+1 and MP3 to fold and increase you're chances of winning the pot Heads-up vs the pre-flop raiser. For example if UTG+1 folds his (Qd,Js) you've benefited since he could call two cold for his 10 outs. You amy even get a hands such as 99, or a better 8 to fold, if this happens it's obviously a HUGE gain for you.

Re: Why do 2+2ers raise the flop with middle pair?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ed Miller elaborates on this move at his website notedpokerauthority.com its in the articles section. i would read all those articles anyhow. I dont think this is a standard move because a set of conditions have to be met but when they are it is really strong.

[/ QUOTE ]
seriously just read the article and it will make sense. I think it is a response to jim brier. Post after you read it.

Re: Why do 2+2ers raise the flop with middle pair?
 

Thanks everyone, after reading the article and seeing the example that made it a lot clearer. I'll look at the relevant section in SSHE as well. Hopefully a situation like this will come up in one of my next sessions, and I'll try to post the hand to make sure I'm applying the concept correctly.

John

Re: Why do 2+2ers raise the flop with middle pair?
 

it's pretty situation dependant, but the more likely someone is to be betting a worse hand, the more likely you should be willing to raise with a hand like middle pair (since it will be more likely to be the best hand)

Re: Why do 2+2ers raise the flop with middle pair?
 

do you have a link to the post you mentioned?