Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

I did a quick search, and it appears that it is heresay to speak against SSHE. And I agree, of what few books I've read on poker ... it's one of the finest.

Even this fool can see that.

Nonetheless, the book is geared to crushing loose, multiway pots.

6-8 players seeing the flop?

I've NEVER seen this, and I started at .5/1 online.

3-5 players as tight?

Not a chance, at most three will see the flop. That's when you're lucky.

Now, admittedly, there are a couple of pages on small pots ... but that's about it.

What I need is a book that addreses tight, aggressive play where about 2-3 people are seeing the flop. Something that covers blind stealing, defence, small pots, and any other relevant topics for todays online environment.

HEPFAP ... maybe?

Some of the most relevant info I've come across recently actually came from some articles by Abdul. In particular ... open raising any playable hand in tight games when doing so might get you the blinds.

Something so simple and obvious, but missing in SSHE.

Thanks guys,
Zim

(I'm currently playing 2/4 on the pokkerroom network.)

(ps Never played Party ... are the games looser there?)

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

If its true that 3 players to the flop is a rare event at pokerroom I am never going to play there.

Sounds like you should read HEPFAP, although I think that some other concepts in SSHE are useful too.

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

wow. you'll probably flamed by the "know it alls"....

but my recent experience has been the same as you. i signed up for the most popular poker site in the world, and i was shocked (dumb-founded in fact) by how tight the games were.

i came from a sports betting site with poker. very few bonuses, poker tracker doesn't work, lots of europeans, and this led to alot softer games (4-5 pre-flop) but no huge availability. i've since gone back to the softer site, albeit with no bonuses.

we had a very similar thread to this recently. i seem to recall MLP by ciaffone and i recommended matt maroon's book (very cheap). even hellmuth's stuff is pretty good for tight games. and obviously sklansky's stuff.

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

At Party, the 2-4 tables are rarely like this. While you don't have the California style everyone sees the flop type game, you often get four-six players to a flop. Also, even when the games are tight the players are often bad and you can ratchet up your aggression and read their response well enough to either steal or get them to loosen up.

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

You might like King Yao's Weighing the Odds in Hold'em. Especially as it has the best in-print advice on 6-max tables. Which is where much of the fish has gone. This is especially obvious on Party, where the introduction of short tables at 3/6 pretty much killed full ring games.

All in all I think 10-handed hold'em is a dying beast, atleast online.

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

MRBAA, i was talking about party when i mentioned really tight games... but i think you are correct that it takes a big adjustment in your play (tighten up huge early-mid, get aggressive, and play position hard) ... but i would question how profitable it can be when there is seldom very much money in the center of the table (i think that's why they have the bonuses - it's sort of a rake kickback) ... but just each of our opinions, and i didn't spend alot of time at party (although they just gave me some $$$$, they probably felt sorry for how fast i lost my initial $$$$$)

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

the starting hand chart in Internet Texas Hold Em by Matthew Hilger might be more to your taste. it's a little tighter than SSHE in early and middle position, and it specifies how many limpers are recommended before coming in with borderline hands, as well as how to play against a raise.

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

[ QUOTE ]
You might like King Yao's Weighing the Odds in Hold'em. Especially as it has the best in-print advice on 6-max tables. Which is where much of the fish has gone. This is especially obvious on Party, where the introduction of short tables at 3/6 pretty much killed full ring games.

All in all I think 10-handed hold'em is a dying beast, atleast online.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree. 10-handed limit does seem to be dying... and i think the "fishier" creatures have gone to shorthanded and no-limit (and unfortunately the shorthanded is more suited to their fishiness - they improve by accident).

i agree that yao king is the only book i know that really gets into the essence of shorthanded play the way it's played these days (sklansky and matt maroon both have good shorthanded sections too).

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

I think the full party 2-4 games are still very good. I rarely sit in one with enough strong players to make me want to move. Just because players don't spew chips or bluff like maniacs doesn't mean they are solid by any means.

btw, I'm the co-author of The Pocket Idiot's Guide to Texas Hold'em, which is mainly a beginner book. However it was written to be useful to intermediate players as well. I'd certainly think that anyone who had read and understood it fully would be able to beat a "typical" Party 2-4 game.

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

[ QUOTE ]
and i think the "fishier" creatures have gone to shorthanded and no-limit (and unfortunately the shorthanded is more suited to their fishiness - they improve by accident).

[/ QUOTE ]

While this thought certainly sounds logical enough, and Malmuth&Sklansky advocate it in HEFAP, it isn't so when we look at the empirical data.

People on the HUSH forum here have higher win rates than people who play similar limits full handed. Of the people I know and have had the opportunity to dive into their PT databases this also seems to always be the case. I for one have a higher win rate short handed and have played enough hands both full and short to know it's a significant (in the statistical sense) difference.

While you have to loosen up, thus seemingly erasing a bit of the gap between you and the fish, the fact that you get so much more quality time with each fish apparently overwhelms this. You get to milk the little buggers for all their worth.

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and i think the "fishier" creatures have gone to shorthanded and no-limit (and unfortunately the shorthanded is more suited to their fishiness - they improve by accident).

[/ QUOTE ]

While this thought certainly sounds logical enough, and Malmuth&Sklansky advocate it in HEFAP, it isn't so when we look at the empirical data.

People on the HUSH forum here have higher win rates than people who play similar limits full handed. Of the people I know and have had the opportunity to dive into their PT databases this also seems to always be the case. I for one have a higher win rate short handed and have played enough hands both full and short to know it's a significant (in the statistical sense) difference.

While you have to loosen up, thus seemingly erasing a bit of the gap between you and the fish, the fact that you get so much more quality time with each fish apparently overwhelms this. You get to milk the little buggers for all their worth.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree totally, and you articulated it very well.... also, shorthanded i think post-flop play becomes key, and the fishier ones haven't caught onto that and never will (don't get me wrong, my post-flop play needs work too). i did quite well in shorthanded but my bankroll couldn't take it and no-limit and i would keep playing when the table got very short (losing 10 hands in a row is excrutiating painful and very bad for bankroll)

it's kind of sad, i don't see the ridiculous fish around too much any more (they either quit or smartened up a little - probably the latter)

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

[ QUOTE ]

Nonetheless, the book is geared to crushing loose, multiway pots.


[/ QUOTE ]

The book is geared, in its own words, to beating games where most players do not play correctly. They either play too many flops or they play to the end with hands they shouldn't. It doesn't matter if you only have 3 or 4 opponents seeing the flop. If most of those shouldn't be seeing the flop, the game is beatable using SSHE strategy.

As stated in SSHE, HPFAP is for games where most of your opponents are playing correctly for the most part. That certainly doesn't describe any low limit online games that I have seen.

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

i'm seeing low limit full table games in the middle.

some very good players and some pretty bad players (but not ridiculously where 6-7 see the flop and 3-4 continue thru the flop/turn/river)

i'm thinking SSHE might be just a tad too loose (even the tight chart) for most games out there. but it's still an excellent book and we should be able to make the adjustments ourselves. i think you'd have to go B&M to see any games where the loose chart could be used profitably.

(yes, i know i was the guy who was confused over generating a table in-between the tight and loose charts)

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

[ QUOTE ]
i'm seeing low limit full table games in the middle.

some very good players and some pretty bad players (but not ridiculously where 6-7 see the flop and 3-4 continue thru the flop/turn/river)

i'm thinking SSHE might be just a tad too loose (even the tight chart) for most games out there.

(yes, i know i was the guy who was confused over generating a table in-between the tight and loose charts)

[/ QUOTE ]

A table isn't loose, the players are. If there are some good players and some bad players at the table, you play one way against the good players and differently against the bad players.

The charts are a teaching tool. You need to get past them and learn to think about the situation, and about the players at the table. You don't play against a table, you play against individuals.

The authors in SSHE say that there is nothing sacred about their charts, and that others might work just as well for most people. But they say that the charts are a starting place to get you to think about the game. You have to learn and properly apply the principles, not mechanically play according to a chart.

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

A table isn't loose, the players are. If there are some good players and some bad players at the table, you play one way against the good players and differently against the bad players.

The charts are a teaching tool. You need to get past them and learn to think about the situation, and about the players at the table. You don't play against a table, you play against individuals.

The authors in SSHE say that there is nothing sacred about their charts, and that others might work just as well for most people. But they say that the charts are a starting place to get you to think about the game. You have to learn and properly apply the principles, not mechanically play according to a chart.

[/ QUOTE ]

with all due respect, i think i'd like some apple pie with all those motherhood statements.

and the book basically says (and i para-phrase), don't start thinking that if i can play JTs, so T9s should be ok, so then T9o is pretty similar, so it should be o.k.. they say don't get into that line of thinking, and stick very close to the charts (assuming the game is suitable). one thing sklansky says in that book or elsewhere is do not sweat 50%/50% relatively minor decisions (obviously this is NOT no-limit)

if you're really going to get heavily into which players at the table play loose/tight passive/aggressive "timid vs. calling stations" and how tables aren't loose, players are, frankly i would skip huge sections of SSHE and get more advanced books, and you are correct that the charts should be considered quite situational.

but if you want to have fun at B&M and make a little $$$$ at it, i would get to know the tight chart very well and make a few judgements on your own (like maybe tightening up on playing any suited cards from small blind unraised)

i always see people saying that charts should only be a very general guide, but then i see people who think they are good players playing miles and miles away from any chart would suggest....

i think about games alot and look at charts in between games to make sure i haven't wavered from them completely. and i know where to get different charts for different games.

post-flop is where you have to do alot more work and no chart can help you there.

that's my rant!!!

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

I agree to some extent that some games have tightened a bit pre flop, but after that there is still some real bad play. I have been called down by hands that were easy folds. I think post flop is where the good players are maintaining their edge. It is fairly easy for a fish to stop playing junk (if they want to), but learning correct post flop play is a different animal. In fact, in SSH they say that although it is important to have good pre flop play, more time should be dedicated towards improving post flop play. I totally agree with this.

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

PJ, I couldn't agree more. Just because someone will fold his A-9o to your preflop raise doesn't mean he isn't a fish!

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

[ QUOTE ]
it's kind of sad, i don't see the ridiculous fish around too much any more (they either quit or smartened up a little - probably the latter)


[/ QUOTE ]

Or they go back to the full game because they lose their money slower.

b

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

[ QUOTE ]
It is fairly easy for a fish to stop playing junk (if they want to),

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd be suprised. Many players can't get past the boredom of playing fewer hands. They want to be involved in the action, not watch it. Many don't know how to watch a hand unless they are involved in it. So, even though they may stop for a little while as far as playing crap, they will most likely revert back to it. Especially after a bad run coupled with seeing other bad players take down pots with crap.

I wouldn't underestimate the discipline it takes to tighten up preflop longterm.

b

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

[ QUOTE ]
if you're really going to get heavily into which players at the table play loose/tight passive/aggressive "timid vs. calling stations" and how tables aren't loose, players are, frankly i would skip huge sections of SSHE and get more advanced books, and you are correct that the charts should be considered quite situational.


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, you shouldn't skip huge sections as much of it is still relevant. Especially in multiway situations. How hard is it to notice a calling station and timid players at your table? This is difficult? Please.

[ QUOTE ]
i think about games alot and look at charts in between games to make sure i haven't wavered from them completely. and i know where to get different charts for different games.


[/ QUOTE ]

It seems you are too hung up on the charts. I think even Ed mentioned when the book came out he'd rather have not put the charts in there because he figured (correctly) that many would focus on the chart and not the 'whys' of the way preflop hands are valued.

Eventually you should be able to ask yourself why you are playing a certain hand a certain way preflop. It's a very basic question. The answer shouldn't be, 'because the chart says I can...' If you're not past that, I'd suggest studying preflop even more rather than just using the crutch of a chart.

[ QUOTE ]
but then i see people who think they are good players playing miles and miles away from any chart would suggest....


[/ QUOTE ]

Some of these players understand preflop beyond just a chart. Good players don't rely on a chart. They look at the situation presented to them and adjust accordingly.

b

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

sorry guys, i respectfully disagree. i think having good familiarity with different charts should be at the core of your game.... but no i don't have the charts taped to my computer or anything. but i look at them alot between play.

no, it's not difficult to figure out who's a "calling station" etc... but actually now you're type-casting people. seems like that's pretty similar to being fixated on the charts.

the book does say don't deviate heavily from the charts. i could cite the page when i get home, but i'm pretty sure it's not worth the bother.

let me fixate on the charts and keep losing. and you can crush the tables with your great reads, your great feel for your opponents and your fancy abilities and we can all be happy.

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is fairly easy for a fish to stop playing junk (if they want to),

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd be suprised. Many players can't get past the boredom of playing fewer hands. They want to be involved in the action, not watch it. Many don't know how to watch a hand unless they are involved in it. So, even though they may stop for a little while as far as playing crap, they will most likely revert back to it. Especially after a bad run coupled with seeing other bad players take down pots with crap.

I wouldn't underestimate the discipline it takes to tighten up preflop longterm.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not underestimating how many players play junk. Certainly, the vast majority of bad players do play bad cards. What I am saying, is even if someone is taking the time to improve their play, they may still be a poor player. For example, a person who is clueless about what cards to play can instantly improve their play by looking at a pre flop chart. However, they may not take the time to understand the theory behind playing hands in different situations and why a hands value changes, therefore, fail to adjust when they need to. Furthermore, there is no "quick fix" for post flop play (such as looking at a chart) it requires a lot of learning and thinking which the majority of players are not willing to do. As a result, they may get a quick understanding on when to fold to a raise pre flop, but still go too far with a hand once they have entered a pot.

I do agree though that most players do get bored and start playing too many hands, but I think even the players who try to stick to the pre flop guidelins play quite poorly after the flop.

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is fairly easy for a fish to stop playing junk (if they want to),

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd be suprised. Many players can't get past the boredom of playing fewer hands. They want to be involved in the action, not watch it.

[/ QUOTE ]

All-time classic fish line: "How can you fold preflop? You haven't seen your hand yet!"

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think having good familiarity with different charts should be at the core of your game....



[/ QUOTE ]

I think knowing why hands play well in certain situations should be at the core, not the charts. Charts are a good start, and will help point you in the right direction, but eventually you will have to move beyond them to fully understand key parts of the game.

[ QUOTE ]
but actually now you're type-casting people. seems like that's pretty similar to being fixated on the charts.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's called player profiling. Failure to do this and adjust is failure to maximize situations. It starts with recognizing the situations.

[ QUOTE ]
let me fixate on the charts and keep losing. and you can crush the tables with your great reads, your great feel for your opponents and your fancy abilities and we can all be happy.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not fancy abilities or anything. It's lots of study and experience. Sorry we can't just give you the cliff notes/cookie cutter version of how to do well. Do you want to do the work to get better or not?

b

Re: Need something more suitable for online play than SSHE
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think having good familiarity with different charts should be at the core of your game

[/ QUOTE ]

The core of the game is making correct decisions.

There are preflop decisions and postflop decisions. A chart can quickly and easily provide input on one factor that goes into the preflop decision: an objective evaluation of your hand strength. Other factors include your position, your position relative to tight or loose players, what your postflop position will be, whether the players who have acted are tight or loose, whether the players who have yet to act are tight or loose, the size of the pot, the likely size of the pot, whether your hand plays well against the likely number of opponents seeing the flop, etc.

More and/or "better" charts aren't going to improve anyone's game. A chart is a tool. A good player, like a good craftsman, acquires more and more tools. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Thanks gentlemen, however ...
 

I must be honest ... I was more concerned with post flop play in tight games than preflop charts.

It only took me a few rounds to realize that limping in with small pocket pairs from mid and late position was a waste of time when few see the flop.

But I have open raised with them in the SB.

Now ... this is not mentioned in SSHE. And I can only surmise that the reason for this is the overal theme of the book (big pots, loose play).

I don't think a newb should be left to figure these things out for himself.

And it begs the question: How much more information has been left out, not by oversight ... but more because it was written for a different play environment.

As I understand, Ed Miller is not a big fan of online play (actually, didn't he admit to busting out at the 1/2 and 2/4 online tables when he started out?) ... but has been successful in B&M poker rooms.

Hey, his book is awesome. But I need a book written by someone who is, say ... successfully ten tabling 2/4 online games.

This is a vastly different environment than the old school. The fundamentals may well be fundamentals, but the context they take place in can lead to a great deal of mis-interpretation by a noobie.

(I wrote a nice, somewhat under-appreciated post on this in Poker Theory)

Times have changed, thanks Rud and friends ...
 

In particular:

All in all I think 10-handed hold'em is a dying beast, atleast online.

I remember sitting at a 1/2 table (Crypto site) and we were all being talkative for some reason. Half the table had PT, and most had read Skalansky or Miller. Before you know it, we were all talking about win rates and standard deviation, prompting one to comment:

"This has to be the most skilled, 1/2 table in existence"

I have no doubt a good player can still profit in the full table, low-limit games. Nonetheless, it seems pointless if the fish have moved.

I think if you want to make money at poker, you have to keep abreast of the current trends and playing environments. From what I've read, so far, I think the new breed of successful poker player, and one you'll likely be playing against is ...

Multi-tabling, 6-max, PT, HUDs, seeking out fish in the lower limits.

This is vastly different environment than poker books that start with the premise you'll be sitting down at a full table with people who will play any two cards.

Thanks Rud, I'll check out King Yao's (love the name) book.

Best,
Zim

Thanks SM ..
 

Yah ... I figured I might get scorched a bit. Actually, the responses have been quite reasonable, particularly considering I'm a newbie.

I thank everyone for their restraint.

I just find it a little frustrating to discover the games are not easy to beat, and I suspect part of the reason is how they are portrayed in the poker media:

Populated by idiots who want to give you their money.

Well ... even an idiot can play a tight agressive game preflop, and even if he errs on the side of passive/weak post flop, you're not gonna make much money from him.

However, I will agree ... I played some Europeans on the Cryptos, recently, (.5/1) and I was amazed:

Five people were seeing the flop, even after a raise. And they were livid when I made my draws. Ed Miller's book was awesome for that sort of environment.

At one point the game was capped, 6 way, preflop. I had 67s (that's a questionable play, I suppose, but this was such an unusual situation, that I'd never encountered before ... I felt I couldn't fold) Long story short, made the nut draw, a 44 BB pot.

You should have heard the squawking.

But this is rather rare, and I have no interest in confining my play to 1BP tables on the Crypto network on Saturday night.

Always great to hear your thoughts, SM, as it seems we are experiencing similar things.

Best,
Zim

Re: Thanks SM ..
 

Hi Zim,

Once you have a very solid memorized preflop strategy, you need to work on your postflop play. Texas hold em is extremely complex after the flop, even in loose games, and it takes a lot of studying and practice at the tables before you can start to feel comfortable in the many different and often unique situations that occur.

I'm not there yet, but I'm certainly learning to play better every day because I realize that I'm not there.

Re: Thanks gentlemen, however ...
 

[ QUOTE ]
As I understand, Ed Miller is not a big fan of online play (actually, didn't he admit to busting out at the 1/2 and 2/4 online tables when he started out?) ... but has been successful in B&M poker rooms.

Hey, his book is awesome. But I need a book written by someone who is, say ... successfully ten tabling 2/4 online games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lately I've been 5-tabling the $3-$6 6max at Party. I suppose they play semi-tight preflop, but the games are still really soft.

Here's my quick tips:

Preflop:
1. Don't open-limp.
2. Play quite tightly in the first two spots. Open up a bit in the cutoff and a fair bit more on the button.
3. Favor hands with showdown value. On the button you want K8s, not T8s.
4. Treat many raises with respect still. A lot of these guys don't raise enough preflop in general, so those raises mean something. Or rather, get PokerAce so you know the difference between someone who raises 7% of the time and someone who raises 25%. KQ is still a fold against the 7%er, 6-max or no.
5. No need to play your small blind that much, but defend your big blind liberally against the 25% raiser types. This means some nasty stuff like Q8o and so forth. If you roll over on your big blind in 6-max, you'll get hammered. There's an article on my website about shorthanded blind defense.

Postflop:
1. A big chunk of your money will come from a relatively small number of really terrible players. They tend to be either mega-maniacs or calling stations. Bet the calling stations to death, and fire it up against the maniacs when you flop something decent. The thing that's so great about maniacs is everyone starts playing stupid. Wait for fairly good hands and cap away. Though use common sense. Even maniacs tend to back off on the turn and river some, so if they keep coming, be careful.
2. Avoid putting in lots of action and then folding. That's a huge mistake, yet one players who are trying to be good tend to make. They get fancy with semi-bluffs, get taken one more bet, and then end up folding in a huge pot when they miss. Every time you raise, you should be more and more sure you're going to showdown.
3. There are also bettors and callers. The bettors try to push you off every other hand. They can't resist betting into a raiser on a T55 flop. They call to the river with their ace-high, and when they don't improve, they gotta take a stab at the pot. You beat the bettors by calling. Generally you don't want to slow them down... just use their momentum against them.

The callers have adjusted to the bettors, and call everyone down. While that works fine against the bettors, it shouldn't work against you. Bet for value on the turn and river when you flop good, and check behind when you don't. They won't adjust, and they'll be calling you down too often.

With due respect to the chart-lovers, no chart is going to make you a winning 6-max player. You have to pay attention to your opponents' proclivities and take advantage of them. You'll be playing a lot of heads-up pots against a lot of one-dimensional players. This one's a bettor. This one's a caller. This one likes to give up too fast if you 3-bet him preflop.

You don't have to play great to beat these guys. But you do have to be identifying how they play (usually badly and with systematic errors) and adjust to their play.

PS. For some reason, a lot of people seem to like this particular dummkopf play in the $3-$6 game: Open-raise with some jank and get 3-bet by me from the blind. After I auto-bet the flop, they auto-raise me. If I call and check the turn, they take the free card with a ton of hands.

The problem with this play is that I had the better hand preflop, and I'm still just as likely to have the better hand after their flop auto-raise. They are making the pot bigger, tieing me to my hand for showdown. And they are asking to get themselves 3-bet on the flop drawing very thin.

For instance, some guy open-raises with A9. I 3-bet in the blind with AK. He calls. Flop comes KT4. I bet, he auto-raises. It's dumb. Don't fall into that trap, but watch out for it.

Re: Thanks gentlemen, however ...
 

The book specificly says don't limp with small pairs if you do not expect a multiway pot.

Re: Thanks gentlemen, however ...
 

Ed,

I know you were replying to Zim here, but thanks for the insight.

My SH play is really terrible and now I know why. The good thing is my dablle short-handed has helped me identify some weak spots in my game.

The game is still about the people...

Re: Thanks gentlemen, however ...
 

[ QUOTE ]

PS. For some reason, a lot of people seem to like this particular dummkopf play in the $3-$6 game:


[/ QUOTE ]

great post. i play on a different site but i've noticed a cousin of this play by some of the bettors.

open raise with some jank, i call in bb. i check raise the flop, they 3-bet. i have seen this 3-bet done with all sorts of trash that hasn't hit the board.

Re: Thanks gentlemen, however ...
 

You never let us down Ed. Best post I have read in months, nobody has yet explained the basics of the thought process in 6-max your post in a manner that is so... simple. Please add it to your website for posterity.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Thanks Ed
 

I stand well corrected.

Noted poker authorities will be found anywhere a good game is to be had.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Your recommendations will be of immense help for my upcoming 6-max odyssey. And I'm certain they will be of even greater help to those already in the swings of the game.

I shall now return to my current game, full ring, with SSHE in one hand ... and my tenuous sanity in the other.

Best wishes,
Zim

Re: Thanks gentlemen, however ... edit
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

PS. For some reason, a lot of people seem to like this particular dummkopf play in the $3-$6 game:


[/ QUOTE ]

great post. i play on a different site but i've noticed a cousin of this play by some of the bettors.

open raise with some jank, i call in bb. i check raise the flop, they 3-bet. i have seen this 3-bet done with all sorts of trash that hasn't hit the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Both are can be seen as examples of slingshot bets. I had a post in the old mid/high stake forum about those. Not sure where that post ended up now that they split the forum.

Edit:

Found it

b

Re: Thanks gentlemen, however ...
 

ed miller,

thank you for the response! great stuff!

i love SSHE, but the poker world has a need for more of your books. i think you're working on this but NL, tournaments (including SH) and short-handed would be great. and it really has to be relative to the games we all play. i think there is sufficient information out there for tough games.

thanks again, very good stuff!

BTW, what is your website? i can google it probably but hopefully you could post it.

Re: Thanks gentlemen, however ...
 

http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/

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Re: Thanks gentlemen, however ...
 

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http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/

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thanks bernie!!

Re: Times have changed, thanks Rud and friends ...
 

zim, this is a very good thread.

made me think a little about the starting charts.. i do realize that good poker is a craft, but i would hazard that tons of people who think they've graduated from the charts would be shocked if they actually looked at one for a typical slightly loose game.

you are totally correct about the new environment where it seems like it is people multi-tabling with pokertracker looking for fish (basically like that sonar that recreational fish boats have).

you might want to try obscure poker sites (some fraud and bankruptcy risk) that don't allow pokertracker (or just too small for pokertracker to care about).

i understand there are lots of fish at sports betting site and/or those that don't work with pokertracker.

at the risk of offending an entire continent, i find europeans are more fun to play against. wonder if the twoplustwo books, and great books from other publishers, have been translated into all of the major european languages (i doubt it, but not sure).